Did anyone ever lose the ability to sleep properly?
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free skin care · Tue May 30, 2006 7:40 pm

Hi
I'm wondering if anyone here has had the same experience as me and found a cure.

I used to be a 'late night' person. Went to bed anywhere between 1 and 3 slept like a log and had massive difficulty waking up in the mornings. If I was working I'd do this all week and have a really long sleep at the weekend and feel fully restored.

For coming up to three years I've had a really irritating sleep pattern. I sleep really lightly and wake up anytime from 4.00 am (at my worst) to 6 or 7 am at best even when I'm not working. I never feel fully functional.

I've tried Prozac (prescribed by a doctor) I was extremely depressed when this problem first occured. I've tried sleeping pills. A 6 hour walk occasionally helps to extend my sleep to 8.00am, but not always. I've tried forcing myself to lie in bed longer. I've tried darkening the room.

Anyone else suffered from this kind of reversal of their sleep pattern before? Did you ever solve it?

(Don't tell me to drink warm milk or I might punch you - I'm tired Bad Grin

)

Any experience? thanks M.

free skin care · Tue May 30, 2006 7:58 pm

Lots of experience. I never had trouble sleeping until I became a police officer. Being brand new & no seniority I worked midnights for 3 very loooooooooooong years. My sleep patterns were never the same.

I now work 3pm-11pm (without a late arrest), and I still struggle with the insomnia. I did the Zoloft thing. Horrible stuff, for me anyway. He prescribed it because I also have night terrors, the meds prevented me from going into a REM stage of sleep. The result? I felt flat emotionally from the meds and still tired from not going through the normal stage sleep patterns.

There are those here who are getting to know me well enough to probably be laughing, because I sleep so little now. BUT! There are some remedies that help. White noise ( a fan, not blowing on you) is good, especially if you're a light sleeper. While laying in bed trying to drift off, stretch. Start at your toes slowly flex & tighten each section & release it. Essential oils can be used. A not too long article but don't want to post the whole thing here.
http://www.holisticonline.com/Remedies/Sleep/sleep_ins_alt-aromatherapy.htm

And keep this in mind. As much as we pine for the 14 hours of sleep we used to get, the reality is as we age, we need less sleep. And when all else fails? NAPS!! ( I LOVE my naps, lol)

HTH - if nothing else maybe I bored you enough to put you to sleep! Laughing

free skin care · Tue May 30, 2006 8:20 pm

Hi Candy

Thanks, I'll have a read of that. Glad to know you're suffering too Confused

(only joking). Really sorry to hear you've never got out of it either. I agree the anti-depressants aren't very beneficial for everyone - they made me feel really dim.

Just thought I should clarify. I have absolutely no trouble getting to sleep. In fact I have to do everything I can to force my eyes open in the afternoons, especially if I'm teaching, but once I do sleep even if I wait until an appropriate time of night it's only for 4-5 hours and I rarely dream anymore so I'm sure it's REM free and it feels totally light and lacking in quality.

I do nap. I feel the urge from lunchtime onwards and if I'm not busy give in to it half the time. Seems such a waste of the day though and again it doesn't feel like 'real' sleep and I'm dazed for the rest of the day.

It's actually extending my night sleep and getting 'quality' sleep again that I'm after.

Thanks M

Tue May 30, 2006 10:58 pm

Yes! Although my sleep patterns are back to normal now. I kept waking up at exactly the same time each early morning. Have a look at the advice I got about this (which might help you too) in an earlier thread: http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=11572

Taking advice I got here, I started taking melatonin and did a bit of exercise and de-stressing and my sleep has been (mostly) restored.

free skin care · Tue May 30, 2006 11:35 pm

I hate that. That's a long time for it to go on for though.

I am very sensitive to sleep patterns and quality. To get a good sleep I have to wait until I am really tired and then go right to bed. If I wait any longer and force myself to stay awake when I am tired, even for just 10-20 min. I get restimulated and get a second wind. Then I cannot sleep well that night at all. Caffeine messes me up as well. And if I miss a night of sleep or even just a few hours of sleep, often it will mess me up for over a week where I can't get any good quality sleep. When I started exercising again it messed up my sleep too. I am very envious of those who can sleep when they want and stay awake when they want like my husband. He often will work 36+ shifts and not sleep for 2-3 days and then sleep and do it again. No problems. I'm a mess if I miss just a few hours. One thing that might help although not good advice is alchole. It always makes me very tired and relaxed. I know you have no problems falling asleep but if something makes you extra tired it might help you fall into a deeper sleep that you don't wake up from for a longer period of time. I also heard that a supplement called ZMA helps you sleep deeply and with vivid dreams. Magnesium, Zinc and B-6. It is a sports supplement. I do think stress and anxiety play a role usually. Depression as well. If there is too much on our minds and too much concern it is hard to quiet the mind enough and let go to get into a deep and slow mental state.

free skin care · Wed May 31, 2006 2:13 am

Thanks Mabsy and Bryg

I had kind of dismissed the Melatonin idea before because I remember it being banned in the UK and there were fears about it affecting hormones or something, but my re-reading is that it only happens in enormous quantities and the authorities are more worried about the purity of the supplements.

So, I saw some a few days ago, I'll give that a try first I think. Although finding anything pure here in China is wishful thinking. I'm hoping there'll be a scrap of the real stuff in it.

It makes big sense to me that not producing this might be my problem. If it's pitch black outside all day with the tropical storms that's when I get my best sleep.

Strangely BYRG the drinking and I've tried and tried that therapy makes me sleep even worse. I think it's good for knocking you out initially but I wake up every two hours minimum.

Thanks Smile

M

free skin care · Wed May 31, 2006 8:45 am

A 6 hour walk!!?? OMG, I'd sleep for three days!

free skin care · Wed May 31, 2006 1:21 pm

I use a sound machine with white noise/rain/ocean sounds and that does help me. I also like essential oils like lavender and Decleor Iris to relax myself.

You could also be perimenopausal. I've slept much better since starting HRT.

free skin care · Wed May 31, 2006 4:51 pm

I've been dealing with sleep issues my whole life - can never sleep unless I am totally comfortable with my surroundings (this sucks for hotels and sleepover when i was younger). And no ability to nap. Compared to my SO, I need half as much sleep as him. Sometimes I'm just not that tired!

I tried sleeping pills when I was in university, but they scared me (and how easily you were konked out!).

I've found lately, that my physical exercise (taking a "bootcamp" class) is tiring me out. Also, taking a clean break from work to home is also beneficial.

I would be curious what has changed in your life, if your sleeping patterns are a sign of your current life/work situation (i.e. my friend is trying to sell me on this book that talks about the ability to get up early if you are motivated to whatever you are faced with that day, so I'm wondering if the same can be applied with falling asleep).

Hope this makes sense - I'm pretty tired myself!

free skin care · Wed May 31, 2006 6:45 pm

This would frustrate me too, I lurve my sleep, but I'm a bit of a night owl too.
Could be hormone related, my mum, my bf's mum and aunty ALL complained of the same thing before or during menopause- that they would wake in the middle of the night and NOT be able to get back to sleep. It's also common in pregnancy.

Alcohol would not help, in fact, it could make it worse as it disrupt your sleep cycle and makes you more likely to wake up during sleep. It does help you relax (and I've been known to have a glass of red wine late at night to help me doze off), but since getting to sleep isn't an issue, it probably wouldn't work.
Instead of a six hour walk - maybe try greater exercise that really gets your heart rate going - jogging or short sprints (even on a treadmill??), or a team sport that make you sweat! This releases endorphins and gives you an "exercise high", and endorphins have a positive effect on sleep patterns if I remember correctly from my Uni days, not to mention the physical exersion can also give you a deeper sleep. I would use supplements and medications as a temporary fix only (unless you are deficient in something), as they might mask any physiological problem and not help you fix it.
Good Luck!!

free skin care · Wed May 31, 2006 7:52 pm

I have also experienced extremely early rising, although for much shorter periods than 3 years. You have my deepest sympathy!

What worked for me is to use the wee hours of the morning to do all sorts of tasks that I dread, like laundry and ironing, and eventually my body started protecting me from such horrors by "sleeping in." I hope this makes sense. I elaborated on it a little more in the thread posted by Mabsy.

Best of luck to you.

free skin care · Wed May 31, 2006 11:32 pm

The only time I've had trouble sleeping is during a time when I felt anxiety and stress ... it was only for a month or so (and then I got out of the situation that was causing me the stress and anxiety), and I've not had trouble sleeping since then.

I've always had a habit of falling asleep in front of the TV when I am alone, I fall asleep fastest that way. I still use that method if I am away on business and sleeping alone in a hotel room or if my SO is away on a business trip and I am sleeping on my own.

My SO on the otherhand, does have trouble sleeping sometimes. He has tried most sleeping pills, his favourite was Ambien ... felt the most rested and didn't wake up in the middle of the night. But we can't get it in Canada so he couldn't use it anymore after he finished the ones he got on his Asia trip. I got him to try melatonin and he does find it to be effective. Another thing that is a sure win to get him to sleep is a deep back massage ... he falls aleep immediately if I give him a back massage.

So maybe you could try a massage chair or have someone give you a deep back massage before bed? Or the melatonin pills? Or the white noise/sound machine/tv ...

Whatever method/treatment you choose, I wish you good luck and good rest!

free skin care · Thu Jun 01, 2006 6:22 am

i myself have insomia, my problem is getting to fall asleep. But there was a time when i fall asleep at 2 am and woke up at 4 am, i could not fall back to sleep again, i was only getting 2 to 4 hrs a night. It happened for 3 weeks. It made me so depressed that i never felt before, i thought i would never sleep again in my life. Plus i always have a problem with my skin, thats why i always want t get a full night sleep. These incedent actually started my anxiety problem.

Lately what i have been doing is trying to get some sun early in the morning. I prefer 7 am cause i know it is healthy, but sometimes there is no sun until 8 am. I have been doing this for a couple of days and so far so good, it made me sleepy at night and been sleeping 8 hours. And try to sleep and wake up at the same time too and also if you take a nap make it short, so it wont messed you up at night...hope these help.

free skin care · Thu Jun 01, 2006 8:28 am

Hi all
Thanks for the continuing advice. There's a lot of it so I won't respond to all of it, but I think I'm physically fine because I just had the most rigorous check up of my life for my work visa.

I tried the melatonin last night and I felt a bit drowsier than usual at first, but still woke up early. Still, it's early days I'll carry on with it for a bit.

White noise sounds good. Aerobic, sweaty, team exercise sounds good - I hate gyms though Sad

.
This perimenopausal thing sounds frightening and it seems a bit early. My family tends to breed at my age Shock

, but I'll look into it if the rest doesn't work.

Quote:

I would be curious what has changed in your life, if your sleeping patterns are a sign of your current life/work situation

This question (no offence Ulana) always makes me laugh. It's a kind of self-help book/doctor question which seems to have absolutely no relationship to my life. The only constant in my adult life has been change even within the past three years.

My latest job is the easiest, most stress free I've ever had in my life, which is why I've decided to try and attack the sleep problem now.

Thanks for all the best wishes too
M Wink

free skin care · Sun Jun 04, 2006 8:05 am

Yes - had very similar problems - doctors say is a clear sign of depression - and want to presecribe anti-depressants. I have tried all sorts - valerian, sleep tapes, essential oils, magnesium, hot drinks, accupuncture, loads of exercise- you name it! The thing that seemed to work for me was 5HTP - supplement you can get from health food shops, and St John's Wort ( this takes 4-6 weeks to take effect though so be patient)It's truly awful though and makes you feel unable to cope with any blip that happens. Hope it picks up for you.

free skin care · Sun Jun 04, 2006 10:24 am

Molly,

I have gone though periods of waking up early and not being able to get back to sleep. Usually when this happens I have a lot on my mind and under stress.

I find I sleep better if I unwind before bed. No computer, no TV show that is exciting. Taking a nice warm bath before bed helps. Some time ago I purchased the Chi Exerciser. I love this machine. It truly relaxes me. You might want to learn the "Relaxation Response." The technique is a form of meditation. Until you do such exercise one is not aware of how much stress they are holding on to. Yoga is also very beneficial.

I am a great one to preach but I don't always follow through with what I know works for me. I do however use the Chi Machine on a regular basis.

Good luck Molly.

free skin care · Sun Jun 04, 2006 3:25 pm

Molly,

I really feel for you Sad

I have been having sleeping problems myself for the past few months. I usually don't go to bed til after midnight and I always end up waking up betweein 3-4am. I mean wide awake! I cannot lie in bed awake because it always gives me instant migraine. So I have to prop myself up in bed and read for a hour or two. By the time I feel drowsy it would be around 5 to 6am. My alarm clock goes off at 6:30am. Talk about being exhausted...

My dr gave me some ambien samples but told me not to use them unless I haven't slept in a week Shock

Benadryl only knocks me out for a few hours. Calming teas didn't do anything. Valerin root capsules smell awful. They made me gag. My cat loves the smell though...better than catnip. Weird! I have tried melatonin before but maybe I need to give it more time?

Hope we both get some real sleep soon!

free skin care · Mon Jun 05, 2006 4:34 am

Molly, sorry to hear that you are having sleeping problems. Through out high school and college I never got enough sleep and coveted my weekends when I could catch up on sleep (which would refresh me for at least the beginning of the following week). Then the last 2-3 years I sleep horribly. When I have the opportunity to catch up on my sleep on the weekends it's like it doesn't do any good like it used to- as if my body cannot store up the sleep anymore. I don't know what's up with that. Perhaps an age thing? And my dreams are very vivid and not the happiest so I wake frequently (and usually this occurs in the early hours of morning).

The last few months I have been putting off going to bed... I literally dread it. It's not that I cannot fall asleep. How's that for a sleeping issue? I think it's that I know I don't want to deal with the dreams but I also HATE the feeling of waking up by alarm.

I'm not big on Rx meds- only when necessary. I tried melatonin and found it helped me but I realized a trend of getting low grade head aches while taking it consistently. (I tried it off and on a couple of times). I might try it again just to see. At least it helped me sleep better through out the night and I wouldn't wake up as much. Strangely enough it made my dreams a bit more pleasant too...

I know this reply isn't giving you any answers. I'm still looking for them myself. I wish you good luck at finding rest though Smile

Perhaps giving the melatonin some more time might help?

Oh, and another thing I just thought of... I know when I get more vigorous exercise I sleep better. You might want to try that if the walks aren't improving your sleep as much as you would like. Just a thought.

free skin care · Mon Jun 05, 2006 5:42 am

Hi all

Thanks for more advice. I feel a bit guilty actually, because I'm living a really lazy life these days - I'm only working 3 weekends a month so my sleep problem isn't much of a problem right now. On the other hand you lot sound like you're all having a much worse time of it. Laughing

Either the weather (rainy season) or the melatonin is making me feel really quite drowsy all day, which is a welcome contrast to a few weeks ago. I'm sleeping quite a bit better - still wake up from 5 onwards, but am managing to go back to sleep on and off til 7.30 Shock

this morning.

I don't think this will last if I work properly again though. I think it's most likely stress-related. So yoga, exercise something like that will be added this week if I can get off my sofa long enough...

Thanks again
Sweet dreams
Molly

free skin care · Mon Jun 05, 2006 11:27 pm

have u tried doing yoga? Smile

It does help for me, 5-10mins is good enough

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