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Kassy_A
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Sun Oct 11, 2009 6:47 pm      Reply with quote
milbader wrote:
Do I hear the hint of another wonderful formula in the works????


Could be my little chick-a-dee... I can't keep all this good stuff to myself.. Laughing

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Oh how I wish I din't wait till my 50's to take care of myself.. I did everything wrong, and totally took my good genes for granted... It's never too late though, and the proof is in the mirror..., er pudding Wink

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♥I'm flattered by all the lovely PM's, but I don't get here much these days. Please don't be afraid to post your quearies to other DIY members who will be glad to help you (or sell you their wares..lol) Still happy with LED, dermarolling and a DIY antioxidant regime. Peace & Hugs to all.♥
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Wed Oct 14, 2009 6:57 pm      Reply with quote
Hi everyone, I'm into my third week of using the AALS. I've been using it five days a week. The only other new thing I have been doing to my skin is using the vaculifter three times a week. I was wondering if anyone has experienced a worsening of their wrinkles from the treatments? The wrinkles below my eyes and on my upper lids are becoming very pronounced. They used to be noticeable only up close. Basically, they were fine lines. Could the light be drying out my skin? I follow the proper protocols for using the light. I alternate treatments with bare skin and the DIY green tea serum. I love using the light, maybe I should use it less frequently. Just wondering if anyone has advice? Thank you.
Kassy_A
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Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:57 pm      Reply with quote
Hi Pack, could you elaborate on exactly how you're doing the Vaculifter? If you don't have tons of oil on, and/or are really going at it without anchoring your skin (nice and taut), you can wind up with worse wrinkles.. The older we are, the worse this situation can be because of the degradation of elastin.. When I use the Vaculifter, I anchor my skin tautly on each side, so the cup moves freely + quite aggressively, but without tugging/stretching the skin.. (5 years ago I could have tugged, pulled, flexed and yanked with the best of them, but now at just a stone's throw from 60, I'm respecting what my skin is telling me...

I don't believe the LED could either cause or worsen wrinkles, but does quite the contrary by plumping the skin with new collagen, thereby filling fine lines in..

Dehydration could definitely exacerbate wrinkles.. Are you well hydrated? Most people believe they are, and then fail the *snap* test miserably.. (Lay your hand flat on a table with fingers spread, take a pinch of skin between two fingers on the top of your hand and hold it for 5 seconds. Let go and count the seconds the skin takes to 'snap' back to flat. If it lays flat instantaneously, you're fascia is in excellent shape and youthful... If it takes 2 seconds you are either dehydrated and/or you are 45 or older.. It's quite normal for an 80 year old to take up to 5 minutes to snap back.. Embarassed

As with everything, there are always so many variables, but the snap test is fun to do.. (I snapped back within 1/2 second on both my hand and undereye area, so I'm doing my happy dance.. Laughing

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Fri Oct 16, 2009 12:07 am      Reply with quote
Hi Kassy,
Wow, that's great your skin snaps back so quickly! I did the test and my skin took about 5 seconds to snap back. So, I didn't fail it too badly. I have a book called The Coconut Oil Miracle and the author suggests this test too. According to the chart in the book, you have skin with the function of a person under 30 years of age. My results correspond with a person 45-50. I am 46. I always wonder if drinking lots of water is really that important. I know a lot of people here would be aghast at me saying this. How much do you drink? I only drink two or three glasses at the most. Does green tea count toward your liquid intake? That is the only other liquid I drink. Do you have any tips for making sure you drink a proper amount of water? I know it should be a simple thing to do, but it can be difficult if you're not used to it. I guess I had better start making an effort.
I don't anchor the skin around my eyes when I use the Vaculifter, but I am going to start doing this. I only made a few quick passes around my eyes when I used it. I didn't want to take any chances. I've been using it three days a week for about a month. I use lots of coconut oil with mine. I am going to stop using the Vaculifter around my eyes to see if I can rule it out as the cause.
I just finished using the LightStim an hour ago and the wrinkles around my eyes are even worse than yesterday. I still think it is drying out my skin. I just thought of something as I write this! Could the green & white tea solution I have been using before the treatment be drying out my skin? The wrinkles only started getting worse for the past few days since using this. This did not happen the first two weeks when I was using your green tea serum.
Thank you for helping me out. You are a great lady.
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Fri Oct 16, 2009 1:29 am      Reply with quote
Hi Kassy, I thought about the situation some more and I think you are right. It is the Vaculifter causing this problem. I looked at my upper lids again and the skin is puffy and bunched up on the outer sections just above the eyelids of each eye. The LightStim could not have done this too. The wrinkles under my eye have increased since last week. I guess my skin is more delicate than I think it is. So between not being hydrated enough and pulling my skin with vacuum suction, I guess it was just too much. Thanks again for your advice. It really helped me think things through.
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Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:21 am      Reply with quote
Hi Pack - I am going to make a suggestion which is controversial on EDS with a few members but you may be interested.......I'd suggest looking into a light massage for your face and eye area using a rosehip oil or argan - some even use olive oil.
It's done wonders for my face and for many of us "older girls". I don't use oil but it's probably a good way to start. This will encourage collagen production and your skin will thicken and be more resilient. It encourages blood flow and will give your face a glow. I'm particularly happy with my eye area - it's not as delicate anymore and is noticeably stronger and firmer. I don't use eyecreams any longer.

I use a prolight red on my face and have not had wrinkles, etc as a result. I am sure your AALS isn't the culprit. Kassy has had good results as have others so I'd hang in there with it.
Is it possible your face is still in a transition phase?

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Fri Oct 16, 2009 8:29 pm      Reply with quote
packratmack wrote:
Hi Kassy, I thought about the situation some more and I think you are right. It is the Vaculifter causing this problem. I looked at my upper lids again and the skin is puffy and bunched up on the outer sections just above the eyelids of each eye. The LightStim could not have done this too. The wrinkles under my eye have increased since last week. I guess my skin is more delicate than I think it is. So between not being hydrated enough and pulling my skin with vacuum suction, I guess it was just too much. Thanks again for your advice. It really helped me think things through.


Pack, we have to get to the bottom of your dilemma... Please humor me a bit further;

- is there any chance you are allergic to coconut oil?
- how old are you?
- are you applying coconut or any other oils before going to bed?
- when you were just using the DIY serum from my recipe, you didn't see any of these new wrinkles?
- you aren't mixing vitamin c with green tea are you, or any other metal containing botanical with an acid?
- exactly how are you making the green tea you have used since seeing these new wrinkles?
- are you waiting 20 minutes for it to absorb before using the LED?

Also, I believe you are definitely dehydrated if your snap response is 5 seconds. (You are right that my snap test suggests someone under 39, but I didn't want to say it.. Laughing ) I have been blessed with great genes, and a very responsive skin that is glad I am finally doing things right.. Very Happy (Tea, coffee, soda + alcohol act as diuretics, and will dehydrate your skin in short order.. As a rule, 6 to 8 glasses of *plain* water per day, will keep you well hydrated, and of course fruits + veggies further give you the much needed fluid..

Check out the 'smoothie' thread Toby started, which is filled with unbelievable information for a fun way to add necessary nutrients to your daily diet.. Your skin + health will thank you.. Also, don't be surprised if you drop several pounds without even trying.. Love these smoothies!! Awesome thread that nobody should miss out on.. Thank's Tobster.. Wink

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewtopic.php?tid=35013

I'd like to suggest you lay off the vaculifter around the eyes for a week or so and just use the LED to calm things down.. (No oils prior to the LED!!!)... The green tea shouldn't hurt you if it's just plain green and/or white tea steeped in 50 cc's water for 2 to 3 minutes.. Then just apply a light coating with a cotton ball, and refrigerate the rest.. Make fresh every couple of days..

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Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:23 pm      Reply with quote
I just wanted to add a comment on the statement that tea and coffee (which contain caffeine) are diuretics. You may wish to review the article Caffeine ingestion and fluid balance: a review, by Maughan & Griffin (2003) published in the Journal of Human Nutrition & Dietetics.

The analysis concludes that valid studies offer no support for the suggestion that consumption of caffeine-containing beverages as part of a normal lifestyle leads to fluid loss in excess of the volume ingested or is associated with poor hydration status. HTH

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Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:19 pm      Reply with quote
Dr. Bob Marshall recommends to drink 32oz of water for each 6oz of coffee a person consumes to compensate for water loss, and most MDs I know consider coffee to be a diuretic as well.

BTW, there are fairly simple devices that measure person's hydration by analysing the skin, they cost about $100, so if that is a major concern one can always go the high tech route.

HTH

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Kassy_A
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Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:37 pm      Reply with quote
Rolling Eyes Laughing Rolling Eyes Laughing Rolling Eyes

To Lacy53

Actually, no, I'm not interested in the article.. But perhaps someone else (who has worn their floors thin) via the path from the coffee pot to the bathroom, will be happy to know there is no good reason for it..

I won't bore everyone with quotes from my library of medical volumes.. Because honestly, does anybody really give a *crap*? All the way through this thread, and elsewhere on the forum, I've talked (for 2 years) about the importance of hydration, and never once needed studies, or felt the need to have a condescending attitude to others.

I have no idea why you feel it necessary to follow up so many of my posts with something negative or contradictory, but it is to the point now, where it is becoming quite the joke in private.. I will ask you again, to please leave me out of your comments, as I have no need or desire to prove myself to you, or to provide the forum drama du jour.

Do you even own an LED? Do you actually want to have "palm oil" and "dehydration" discussion take front and center in an LED thread? These are rhetorical questions, and simply meant as food for thought.

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Sun Oct 18, 2009 2:08 am      Reply with quote
Hi Kassy,
- is there any chance you are allergic to coconut oil? no
- how old are you? 46
- are you applying coconut or any other oils before going to bed? Sometimes, I apply oils before bed, either coconut oil or emu oil. Mostly I stick with Retin A almost every night. I've been using 0.25% for about eight months.
- when you were just using the DIY serum from my recipe, you didn't see any of these new wrinkles? no
- you aren't mixing vitamin c with green tea are you, or any other metal containing botanical with an acid? no. I use a vitamin c serum in the morning. I do the LED treatments in the evening.
- exactly how are you making the green tea you have used since seeing these new wrinkles? I steep two teabags at 158 degrees for five minutes. I use distilled water. I was actually applying it to the point of dripping off my face.
- are you waiting 20 minutes for it to absorb before using the LED? yes

The important thing to me is that the LED is not responsible. I just love that light. Forgive me for not mentioning that I have been doing Ageless exercises every other night for two months. Maybe, I'm just beating my face up too much. I am very envious of your snap test results. I am going to strive to improve mine. I have read many of your posts. In them you say didn't start a good skincare program until you were in your fifties. I didn't start doing anything until about six months ago. I guess it takes seeing the first signs of aging to wake you up. You must have not seen any aging until much later. I'm glad there are people like you who are willing to help and have had great results from their efforts. Thank you, Cheryl
Kassy_A
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Sun Oct 18, 2009 6:48 pm      Reply with quote
Hi Cheryl, thanks for the kind words, and for anwering the additional questions..

It looks like you are doing all good things for your skin..

Maybe the 2 tea bags steeped for 5 minutes and applied "to the point of dripping off the face" is just a little too much.. Maybe next time try just 1 tea bag for 2 or 3 minutes, and just apply a nice even coat with a cotton ball... Then let it absorb for a while, and do the LED treatment some time later. OR, just go back to the simple LED treatment recipe that was working well for you.

The other thoughts I have are that I still think the Vaculifter might be the culprit, and that you did it a little too aggressively, without anchoring the skin..

Also, based on my own experience, If I use oils around my eyes within even 3 hours of going to bed, I'd be a gargoyle in the morning.. I love oils, and use them almost daily, but it's always during the day or in the early evening. Before bed I rinse my face, and if it's a Retin-A night I'll apply that once my face is nice and dry.

You might also like to try avocado oil for a change, which is really nice for treating fine lines or dry skin..

Okay, hope you can make some sense of that... I'm on heavy duty meds right now, and typing with one hand to boot.. Embarassed

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Sun Oct 18, 2009 7:16 pm      Reply with quote
What did you do to yourself Kassy? Jeepers!

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Sun Oct 18, 2009 7:19 pm      Reply with quote
Hi Patrackmack - just expressing some thoughts - I just don't think it's possible to develop wrinkles in a week or so, neither is it possible to get rid of them in that amount of time. I would also doubt that the AALS or the Vaculifter are responsible and neither are the oils, if anything, the oils might make under the eye area puffy, but wrinkles, I doubt it.

My experience is that my own face is in a constant state of flux. Some days I really believe I've cracked the anti-aging code, then on other days I look 100 and get all depressed again! I'm not sure why this is, probably we're all too critical of ourselves.

I wouldn't change anything you're doing, it all sounds fine - stick it out and see how your skin is in a few months. Personally, I think it's all due to our state of mind and how much sleep we've had!!!

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Sun Oct 18, 2009 7:27 pm      Reply with quote
Lacy53 wrote:
I just wanted to add a comment on the statement that tea and coffee (which contain caffeine) are diuretics. You may wish to review the article Caffeine ingestion and fluid balance: a review, by Maughan & Griffin (2003) published in the Journal of Human Nutrition & Dietetics.

The analysis concludes that valid studies offer no support for the suggestion that consumption of caffeine-containing beverages as part of a normal lifestyle leads to fluid loss in excess of the volume ingested or is associated with poor hydration status. HTH


Personally, I am very interested in this subject - mainly because not so much as a sip of water every crosses my lips, I hate cold drinks but drink gallons of tea.

I have also heard and read that the fact that tea is not good for hydration is a myth, and recently came across this information:

Tea and Hydration

Sorting out the Facts
Reinforcing the many potential health benefits of tea consumption, a recent review of black tea research, sponsored by the United Kingdom Tea Council, has gained a great deal of attention over the last few weeks.

The findings, published online in the European Journal of Clinical Nutrition (2006), were reported by various national and international news outlets. Thorough readings of the published findings made it clear that what had been reported in the media were only bits and pieces of the review, a powerful and insightful analysis of more than a decade's worth of data compiled on black tea consumption.

The review's objective was to consider whether the consumption of black tea has a positive or negative impact on health. Despite the potential antioxidant power of black tea and the possibility that it may reduce the risk of coronary heart disease (CHD) and cancer, media reports often imply that tea has adverse effects on; hydration, cognitive function, bone health, dental health and iron status. These implied adverse effects are frequently linked to the caffeine content in tea. This month's newsletter will dispel these myths focusing on the hydration and caffeine data that was reviewed.

Is Tea Dehydrating?
The hydration benefits of drinking tea is one of the most interesting aspects of the data reviewed. The researchers state that tea hydrates the body as effectively as water with the added antioxidant benefits. This is completely contrary to the popular belief that tea is dehydrating due to the caffeine content; a wives' tale often perpetuated in media reports and even by some health care professionals.

So What About Caffeine?
Caffeine, in extremely high doses, can dehydrate the body but even if you brew a cup strong enough to have that effect, which is almost impossible, it wouldn't be palatable. According to the review, even a really super strong cup of tea would have a net gain of fluid. The reviewers went on to suggest that any possible risk related to excess caffeine intake, if that is a concern for you, can be avoided by limiting your tea intake to 8 cups per day.

Dispelling Myths
Dispelling the myth that tea is dehydrating will take time so spread the word and remember you are what you drink. Over the next few months I will continue detailing the review including the criteria and results, dispelling various other myths. Look for those details in upcoming newsletters and on the tea blog.


http://www.teasetc.com/tea/article.asp?ID=52&Name=Tea+and+Hydration

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Sun Oct 18, 2009 7:46 pm      Reply with quote
Keliu wrote:

My experience is that my own face is in a constant state of flux. Some days I really believe I've cracked the anti-aging code, then on other days I look 100 and get all depressed again! I'm not sure why this is, probably we're all too critical of ourselves.


Wow, I thought I was the only one that thought that. Just the other day I felt I was lookin' good and was so happy to see my Perricone products were finally kicking in. Lasted 2 days then I looked like crap again.

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Sun Oct 18, 2009 8:00 pm      Reply with quote
Frodo wrote:
Wow, I thought I was the only one that thought that. Just the other day I felt I was lookin' good and was so happy to see my Perricone products were finally kicking in. Lasted 2 days then I looked like crap again.


No you are not alone! I personally think that this "Jekyll & Hyde Phenomenon" is responsible for all the "raves" and "rants" about products and gadgets on this Forum.

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Sun Oct 18, 2009 8:11 pm      Reply with quote
Keliu wrote:
Frodo wrote:
Wow, I thought I was the only one that thought that. Just the other day I felt I was lookin' good and was so happy to see my Perricone products were finally kicking in. Lasted 2 days then I looked like crap again.


No you are not alone! I personally think that this "Jekyll & Hyde Phenomenon" is responsible for all the "raves" and "rants" about products and gadgets on this Forum.
Yes, and I think I bought every one of them. Sad

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Sun Oct 18, 2009 11:38 pm      Reply with quote
Since this thread had veered off topic slightly, I would like to add the following information regarding the "snap back" test for dehydration.

Normally this test is conducted on children to assess dehydration after illness which involves vomiting or diarrhea; it is considered a late indicator of dehydration (moderate to severe). Various skin locations including the back of the hand are tested.

In older adults, the best skin turgor test is performed on the sternum (breastbone). You can find the information here if you want further information:

http://skin-care.health-cares.net/skin-turgor.php

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17996966?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

Lacy

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Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:42 am      Reply with quote
Lacy53 wrote:
Since this thread had veered off topic slightly, I would like to add the following information regarding the "snap back" test for dehydration.

Normally this test is conducted on children to assess dehydration after illness which involves vomiting or diarrhea; it is considered a late indicator of dehydration (moderate to severe). Various skin locations including the back of the hand are tested.

In older adults, the best skin turgor test is performed on the sternum (breastbone). You can find the information here if you want further information:

http://skin-care.health-cares.net/skin-turgor.php

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17996966?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

Lacy


I think you lost me here - the first article says the back of the hand is where you test adults and the other article is for people over 60. So basically you are confirming what Kassy is saying?

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Mon Oct 19, 2009 11:38 am      Reply with quote
The skin turgor test or pinch test is often cited as a simple way to measure hydration of the skin. It can be performed on various locations of the body, including the hand. The pubmed article stated that in older adults it is a reliable test when done on the sternum.

I am not sure what the test measures when done on an the hand of an adult. I have seen this test used to indicate the loss of collagen and elastin (hence elasticity) in the dermis. In addition to the loss of dermal fibers, hands are also subject to the loss of fatty tissue as we get older. In overweight adults this is usually less evident and may have some bearing on how quickly the skin snaps back. In women of child-bearing age, hormones may play a part as well due to pre-menstrual bloating. Even humidity and temperatures in our environment affect water content of the skin.

I guess I am questioning the reliability of the turgor test when done on the hand of aging adults simply because there are more confounding variables to consider. The study I mentioned does indicate that it is a reliable test for dehydration when done on the sternal area.

I have always learned that the colour of urine and the frequency of urination are good indicators of hydration. Sorry to confuse people with my last post and to take the thread off topic; hope this clarifies things.

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Mon Oct 19, 2009 11:42 am      Reply with quote
I am with you - both Kassy and I have said somewhere in this mess that if your urine is yellow you are not hydrated. Laughing How glamours....

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Mon Oct 19, 2009 11:55 am      Reply with quote
There are portable inexpensive devices that measure hydration via the skin (it is turgor test).

I had seen it work, but do not know how precise and accurate they really are.

The fact that Dr.Marshall is using them (with his PhD in Biochem and degree in nutrition, and several labs and scientists on premises) does give me some confidence.

Or one can do a simple unscientific test - drink a large cup (500 ml) of Black caffeinated tea and see the frequency of urination. Next day do the same with herbal neutral tea (not uva ursi, but chamomile, peppermint, etc.) - and see the same. In my experience there is no comparison between the two (the caffeinated causes me to run to the bathroom many more times). Considering that the amount of liquid was the same, and the output was different ....

Keliu, I am with you - I can not stand drinking plain water. I drink herbal tea with lemon instead.

When I asked Dr. Marshall what to do with my husband, who only drinks black caffeinated tea and would not touch plain water - the suggestion was to try water with a small amount of organic raw juice concentrate (cherry or pomegranate) to make it more palatable.

HTH

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Mon Oct 19, 2009 4:05 pm      Reply with quote
Sigma - who is this Dr Marshall that you often post about? Maybe he can tell me what to do with my husband!! Bad Grin

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Mon Oct 19, 2009 4:16 pm      Reply with quote
Keliu wrote:
Sigma - who is this Dr Marshall that you often post about? Maybe he can tell me what to do with my husband!! Bad Grin

There maybe a long line of us requesting help for our better half( Embarassed worst half)Image

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