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Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:51 am  |
Of course, I should have posted this!
This exercise which helps me switch off using my mouth muscle (which has overbuilt - guess I should run a mile from Facial Flex/Flexaway!)
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"i am 37 yrs old and have deep crows feet and very deep nasolabial fold.
please help me to tighten nasolabial fold.
thank you
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Hi Anjalee,
I had that problem too right around the time I turned around 40. I started doing facial exercises from another source. However, my nasal/labial folds got worse.
It took me a long time to find Carolyn's System but I'm glad I did. She showed me a faster way to exercise and it was easier and gave me a more natural look. Besides it finally took care of those folds. Look at my picture on my home page. I was 49 1/2 in that picture.
One of the best ways to lift out the nasal/labial folds and lines is to lift the cheeks. Many facial exercise programs have you work the corners of your mouth and create resistance by making a kissing motion, but this over-build this nasal fold because it does NOT lift up the cheeks.
One things that was designed into Carolyn's system is the proper building of the upper cheeks so that nasal folds lift up and smooth. Plus, you get higher cheek bones which look more elegant and younger.
So in this exercise you want to:
1- With your mouth make a big "O" shape and wrap your lips around your teeth.
2- Try to smile with the corners of your mouth.
3 - Take the heels of your hands and massage the area just below the temples on the outer edges of the apple of the cheeks .. the area below where crow's feet most often appear. (counting slowly to 10)
Do this a few times a day and within a week or two you should start to see the nasal folds start to lift. "
http://www.wrinkle-free-skin-tips.com/nasolabial-fold.html |
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Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:23 am |
It sounds like you have mouth overbuild, and that’s really easy to fix. I would take a break, usually 2-3 weeks is enough to allow the muscle to revert back. Its not uncommon at all for our stronger muscles to try and jump in when we are working our weaker muscles. Its almost like they are a loving, caring parent, wanting to jump in to pick up some of the slack and stop the weaker muscles getting all stressed out. Now two things spring to mind here. Firstly pay attention to when the mouth jumps in by exercising in front of a mirror. I know it sounds mad, but you would be amazed to see that your mouth might be jumping in during for example forehead, or eye exercises.
Also with cheeks etc, sometimes the movement initiates from the mouth itself, whereas it might need to be initiated from the target muscle which takes a bit of getting used to. That’s not to say the mouth won’t move at all when your working zygomaticus minor or major, there will be some movement, but its very different when you compare lets say working the zygomaticus and engaging the movement from that muscle in comparison with engaging it from the mouth. Its great that your realizing your activating the muscle during every day activities. For me early on, I had this issue and of course realized early on my body had to do something. It didn’t understand the don’t do nothing, but the trick I found was telling it to relax. It sounds mad, but you know muscles like commands, and this was one that seemed to deactive it for me, but I’m sure there are hundreds of other ways.
Cranials are fantastic, I love them. They have a great impact on the fluids of the body (blood, lymph etc) and are also very relaxing and distressing.
| This is Miranda wrote: |
| jeanleemarquis wrote: |
This is so interesting! I bought the surgical tape weeks ago but I haven't given it a try yet... I will give it a go tonight, and see what happens.
You know Miranda, I think that my NL lines are due to the same factors as yours, although I'm having a hard time differentiating between a line due to cheek sag & one due to mouth muscle build up. How can you tell? (Based on your pic on the dermaroller thread, I can see that you have gorgeous cheeks & mouth, but I can't really tell what is causing the line.)
I also tense my mouth a lot, grind my teeth at night as well.
While doing FE & Ageless, I am really trying to concentrate on working the muscle that is being targeted & avoid engaging the orbi oris. My right side is looking pretty good, but my left line is still, well, *there*.
I did the bone massage as described by critic for the first time last night-- now that was really helpful! It made the left line go away, for at least a few hours! Perhaps this & the frownies are the in-between solution I've been looking for until the exercises kick in!
(It does seem that these facial exercises are sort of akin to retin-a, in that there's that ugly period you have to suffer through, doesn't it?) |
Hi JLM, for me it became obvious that exercising was building up my mouth and by talking to many people I've realised my problem with the NL crease is down to my strong mouth definition. As it stands, I have to be very careful how I exercise - infact I'm having a break til Jan to let the build up go down - and I'm doing the bone massage twice a day - as that can only benefit me by relaxing my tense mouth. Whenever I concentrate on anything - housework, emails, work, I realise my jaw is tensed. I wake up in the morning with slight jaw ache and worse parentheses lines because I know I've been tensing most the night (the frownies prevent this but the best solution - a mouth guard - makes me gag). The lady with the beauty clinic understood exactly what I was saying as she's seen it before and recommended the cranial osteopathy - which makes sense.
I'm a huge fan of facial exercise - many people would improve their looks if they did it - but for me, the 'going thru the uglies' didn't apply, it was making me uglier by giving me a monkey mouth because it was impossible for me to switch off my orbi. oris. Since I stopped a few weeks ago, this has started to subside. Be aware that you're not going to have the same problem as me if you're doing facial exercises correctly ie only engaging the cheek muscles or risorius. But monitor your situation carefully as you may be like me.
The first photo isn't me... but the area circled shows exactly where I got a buildup with the exercises. The second is me, about 6 weeks ago whilst in the full throes of Ageless - I thought I was turning into Bruce Willis 
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FlexEffect Trainer |
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Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:55 am |
| jeanleemarquis wrote: |
I did the bone massage as described by critic for the first time last night-- now that was really helpful! It made the left line go away, for at least a few hours! Perhaps this & the frownies are the in-between solution I've been looking for until the exercises kick in!
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Hi Jean, from what I've read at other forums (in Chinese), some people notice a significant improvement at the N/L lines after doing Tanaka's massage for several weeks. Just keep on doing it and I'm sure you will see further positive changes.
You can also check out another Japanese massage which focuses on applying pressure to certain points on the face. It has some huge raves at Japanese forums. There is one particular exercise for the softening of N/L lines.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nzs0H417jUc
This exercise takes less than one min to do and you can repeat it 2-3 times each time!
HTH |
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Fri Dec 18, 2009 3:40 am |
This is a good point Miranda. Lemon, I wonder whether if you *did* decide to get filler put into your NL's, whether that might round out your cheeks too much, given how you've described your facial structure? It sounds like your NL's are actually the youthful looking sort. For example, my baby daughter has a demarcation between her cheeks and the area around her mouth; however, this is obviously due to her adorable puffy cheeks!
To analyze my own (diminishing) NL situation, I would say that they are due to having a bone structure that is on the flatter side. I have a narrow, oval face, so I believe that as I have become older, my (nonexistent) cheeks began to sag. Also, this just occurred to me (Vor, you will love this)-- I had my 2 back molars removed a few years ago. Perhaps because there isn't anything back there to anchor the skin & muscle, things may have started sagging inward. (Rest assured, my teeth, especially the front ones, are perfect!)
Thus, for my own particular situation, I feel that building up the cheeks has been helpful, and my mouth muscles do not have the tendency to jump in while I do them, so I have not experienced any overbuild around the mouth. (However, I am careful to avoid doing exercises that concentrate on the oric orbi.)
However, I did find that by doing the facial exercises alone, that I was beginning to see a sort of "puffiness" right beside my nose & cheek-- at the origin of the NL. Lemon, is this what you have? I did not like the look of it myself, since it exacerbated the look of my NL, which went all the way down to the side of my mouth. It appeared very deep in that area. The Tanaka massage has been very helpful in this regard, smoothing out that lumpiness. |
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Sat Dec 19, 2009 3:14 pm |
There's an exercise from the Ageless routine that most people avoid because it causes gauntness. It's called Crush. It would probably work very well for you to give more definition.
BTW you look lovely in your pic but I can understand your worry for how things will look in the (far) future.
Also another thought, there's a lady on EDS called Toby who is now in her early 50's who has mentioned a few times how she had full cheeks when younger. It may be worth you pm'ing her for advice. She's very informative and if you go to the Ageless forum, you will see her avatar - she's absolutely gorgeous. |
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Mon Dec 21, 2009 6:20 am |
| Lemon wrote: |
| JLM wrote: |
This is a good point Miranda. Lemon, I wonder whether if you *did* decide to get filler put into your NL's, whether that might round out your cheeks too much, given how you've described your facial structure? It sounds like your NL's are actually the youthful looking sort. For example, my baby daughter has a demarcation between her cheeks and the area around her mouth; however, this is obviously due to her adorable puffy cheeks!
...However, I did find that by doing the facial exercises alone, that I was beginning to see a sort of "puffiness" right beside my nose & cheek-- at the origin of the NL. Lemon, is this what you have? |
I believe what I have is exactly what you described your daughter as having. However, even when I'm not smiling there's still a small trench, not from wrinkles but simply from the way my face is shaped. My concern is that this look is going to visually age me as I get older. I'm not considering fillers now, but rather trying to decide how to best approach the situation in the future.
I think my main problem is the structure of my cheeks. I have high cheekbones and on top of that, full cheeks. It's like a mountain rising out of the plains--you get a crevice where the plains and mountain meet.
In this picture here, I'm barely smiling but you can see the trenches still.
Additionally I've been wondering if the only way to lessen the trench effect would be to lose weight. The theory behind that being lower cheeks = slighter slope. But I'm already in my target weight so I guess some things just aren't worth it. |
Hi Lemon,
No one would ever mistake from your picture that your NLs are giving you the appearance of an older, sagging face. In fact, it's obvious that you have a very youthful looking face. In my opinion, you don't have anything to worry about regarding your NL's right now, since they actually make you appear young-- which you are! You have beautiful cheeks and very beautiful skin.
However, regarding your concerns regarding how your NL's might look in the future as you age:  m, it's hard to predict how the aging process will affect you. I am not an expert by any means (except with my own personal experience) but cheeks seem to tend to "de-puff" as you get older. Thus, there might come a time when the appearance of your NL's lessen, since the difference between the "mountain vs the plain" will be less evident. You may not experience the aging sort of NL's as you get older!
For comparison, I have a more oval, flatter face, with high cheekbones but without a lot of cheek muscle. As I have aged, my little cheeks have lessened even more, giving me a gaunt, sunken sort of look, with a distinct line of demarcation between the cheek & mouth area, since the little volume that was there previously had diminished. Currently, I am doing facial exercises to build the cheeks back up-- which is working out well for me-- and doing the Tanaka massage to incorporate the results & lift everything up.
The Tanaka massage might be your best bet at this point, since it seems to lift everything up & smooth out the lines. It seems to be working well for a lot of people-- well, at least for myself!
Anyone else have an opinion? |
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Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:37 pm |
My goodness! Your skin is gorgeous! thank you for posting your pic.  |
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65 Caucasion, history of acne, sagging, some wrinkling, rough texture. Using Dermawand, AALS, Microderm Machine,Copper Peptides |
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Wed Jan 06, 2010 5:26 am |
Happy New Year to everyone on my favourite thread!
I'm back from hols!! Whilst away, I decided to leave many of my gadgets and creams at home to see what happens.
Left at home:
vaculifter
hemp seed oil
cleansing oil
retin A
Tua viso
Derma roller 1.5mm
MSM supps
L-carnosine supps
hyaluronic acid supps
also I haven't been doing facial exercises for a while
Took with me:
facial brush
skinceuticals facial wash (to help spots)
vit c supps
avocado oil
dermaroller 0.5m
and also continued the Tanaka massage
Results: Spots continued and got even worse so one week ago I had to stop doing the Tanaka massage (spots began when I started this 2 months ago) and finally spots are clearing up (no new ones since stopping).
Did a 'light' 0.5mm roll twice a week without applying products and skin looked nice and plump day after.
Started doing some mild cheek exercises from the Eva Fraser programme taking care not to use the orbi. oris muscle. However today (after a week of NL looking better) I'm noticing once again a slight build up on the orbi oris.
Parentheses lines definitely improved but NL still there but I'm feeling better about it and skin looks and feel thicker.
Conclusion: Tackling NL's and parentheses by thickening skin and strengthening (lifting) cheek muscles.
Will stop Tanaka massage and re-introduce mild facial exercises, will continue to dry brush face and twice weekly 0.5mm rolls. Will continue once every 5 weeks 1.5mm roll with Vit A & E app after. |
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Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:06 pm |
| Hermosa wrote: |
TI Miranda, very cute photos, which just underscore (to me) how much we obsess about our own flaws that no one else would notice.
Anyway, I am curious about your TV comment -- can you explain a little more about what you are planning to do? (Diagrams would be especially great!) I have a TV but am worried I am causing more harm than good so haven't used it much. |
umm.... the easiest way to describe my experiment is for you get to the useless instruction mini-handbook that comes with the TV and look at exercise 5. This is the zyco one I'm doing for 5mins but at intensity 5 which produces a massive twitch at my mouth towards the TV. So to avoid this - as it aggravates the problem parenthesis line, I hold my mouth with the other hand. I can't go any higher than 5 as the twitch is too strong for me to hold my mouth. I then repeat the same but lower with the TV pads placed horizontally between the corner of my mouth and the corner of my jaw. Of course I'm guessing where my risorius is and am using this page as a guide
http://www.face-and-emotion.com/dataface/expression/muscles.jsp
Any suggestions for finding exactly where your own muscles are? |
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Thu Feb 04, 2010 3:38 am |
Well, I received my Tian Yong DVD in the mail yesterday-- naturally, I ran to the DVD player to watch. I'll post a more comprehensive review in the TY thread later. However, there was one accupressure point focusing on the NL's that TY demonstrated which reminded me of a link Moonstone had posted a while ago on this thread:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nzs0H417jUc
The guy puts 4 red dots on each side of the models face to demonstrate where you should apply pressure with your finger. TY also shows these same accupressure points. However, the guy says to press in on the point and push upwards 4x (watch the video and you'll see what I mean.)
TY has a different technique: she has you press on the point and massage in a circular motion with your fingertip 3x, then wait 3 seconds while pressing in on the point, and to do 10 repetitions of this.
Well, I tried TY's method, and I have to say, I didn't see too much difference. However, there is an accupressure point just about on either side of the nostrils, and while I was pressing in, it felt pretty good, like a release of pressure or tension of some sort. My sinuses even seemed to be more clear as I was doing this. I decided to continue focusing on this pressure point... which I did, for about 5 minutes or so.
Ah... yes, now there was a difference! The faint shadow that was creeping back along the NLs had receded. The only thing is, I had 2 red fingerprints indented into my skin... but no matter! They faded and the NL's too!
What I like about this accupressure method is that I can do it almost anywhere, even while I'm out & about. I don't know whether one could overdo it (like Tanaka) and get weird results, but for now, I will continue and see what happens. (And so far, no new zits this morning!)
I feel that TY will not give instant lifting results, as Tanaka does, and I will still try to give it another try after my Dermawand arrives. TY results seems to be more cumulative, and accupressure is another method that I feel might be worth trying. I'll continue to post results.
BTW Tonia, I've been doing a combination of FE & Ageless for about 5 months... for me, it seemed that my NL's did get a bit worse at first. Actually, it seemed that my face was looking better after the first couple of weeks, and then a little after a month in, I just looked *so* tired.
And I continued to look tired for about another month, month and a half. I had better days and worse days, but overall, I looked tired. Changes in my diet (green smoothies) did help.
And then Critic posted the Tanaka massage... and *that* is when things began to turn around. I don't know, perhaps it was all a matter of timing? That is, perhaps my face would have started looking better on its own from doing facial exercises anyway? That was about the 3 month mark.
Now I can say, things are looking pretty good everywhere else, though I'm continuing watch those NL's. In fact, I am beginning to wonder about the efficacy of facial exercises as they pertain to NL's-- that is, they might help *some*, but not a lot-- or not as much as some other methods (such as Tanaka, or potentially TY). While these resistance programs are great for the eyes & cheeks, it seems that they don't (or can't) directly address the NL area. HTH.
By the way, here is Moonstone's original post:
| moonstone wrote: |
Hi Jean, from what I've read at other forums (in Chinese), some people notice a significant improvement at the N/L lines after doing Tanaka's massage for several weeks. Just keep on doing it and I'm sure you will see further positive changes.
You can also check out another Japanese massage which focuses on applying pressure to certain points on the face. It has some huge raves at Japanese forums. There is one particular exercise for the softening of N/L lines.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nzs0H417jUc
This exercise takes less than one min to do and you can repeat it 2-3 times each time!
HTH |
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Thu Feb 04, 2010 4:15 am |
Just to add to JLM's point on diet; have a read of this page:
http://www.middle-ageless.com/search?q=greens
I have been dubious on the diet having a direct and speedy effect on NL's but the evidence is mounting!
So just in case, I'm back on the green smoothies! |
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Tue Feb 09, 2010 5:53 am |
I found this on the web re visualisation:
Research Proves the Mind Body Muscle Increase! Studies at Manchester University in England showed dramatic results in just one week with participants doing only HYPNOTIC exercises. The group that did the real exercise (for the same amount of time as the hypnosis group), increased the size and strength of the targeted muscle 30%.
The group who did ONLY the hypnosis exercise increased the size and strength 16%.
This is important. Here's why. More than 50% of the muscle increase is obtained from the mental state that supports it. The messages from the subconscious mind are powerful enough to command the muscles to grow by feeding the cells what they need. And this is without moving a muscle.
Cellular Memory (you have heard Depak Chopra talk about how important this is and how easily it is manipulated) is handed down from dying cells to newly forming cells. If nothing changes, the dying cell gives the new cell the same memory. The new cell is formed in the same way as the old one.
http://www.wendi.com/html/body_building.html
So maybe we should just visualise working out our face. |
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Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:55 pm |
"Angellift and Botox work on similar theories of muscle memory. Muscle memory is responsible for most facial wrinkles. Botox paralyzes the muscle to remove its memory and the Angellift device restricts the muscle, removing muscle memory. Because Angellift restricts the muscle without paralyzing, it can be used around the mouth. Injectable fillers can also be used around the mouth as they fill the space between the skin and the muscle, temporarily removing the wrinkle. Ironically, the same way they remove the wrinkle they increase the muscle memory. This increased muscle memory will cause larger and deeper facial wrinkles once the filler dissipates. Injectable fillers act like temporary spacers between your skin and muscle. These spacers force the muscle to contract even further, causing even deeper wrinkles when the spacer is removed."
I don't know Miranda, it seems a stretch to me. I'm picking mine up on Friday so I'll keep everyone updated. |
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Born in 1952. Blonde, very good skin. A few noticeable wrinkles. |
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Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:00 am |
I don't agree with that theory about weight loss per se, but I do believe that the NL's are caused by the fat loss or loss of the fat pads in the cheek area. When we are younger and lose weight, I think those pads stay put and are more resilient in nature...with age, those pads diminish in some therefore causing the skin to sag in the mid face in turn causing the dreaded trenches.
I lost a lot of weight in my younger years and did not obtain the NL's until later 30's...and I was holding at about 125-130lbs when they formed....damn things anyhow!!  |
_________________
Female: 42...Fair/Dry...Brown Hair/Green Eyes...Using: Born Again MSM Cream...Country Divine Emu Serum...Juvederm...Botox...Retin-A .05%...Easy Eye Solutions...Started 2/9/12 with Skin Bio Skin Signals Cream and TTT, Spot treating with TriRed |
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Irena
New Member
 
Joined: 13 Sep 2012
Posts: 2
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Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:48 am |
| I just spot treat with the product I mentioned. |
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Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:23 pm |
Toby, amen! I've lifted many a client's NL folds with microcurrent. I show my cheek lifting method in lots of my microcurrent tutorial videos. But I just wanted to chime in and say that microcurrent ABSOLUTELY lifts this area.
Cheers,
Christine Byer
Master Esthetician
My vids in case you're interested:
http://www.youtube.com/user/christinebyer/videos?flow=grid&view=0 |
_________________
Licensed Esthetician 19+ years - Specializing in microcurrent facial toning, NeoGenesis Skincare, Jade Microcurrent (Pro Use), Clareblend Mini (Home use) https://ChristineByer.com • www.youtube.com/user/christinebyer/videos |
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