28 & worried about marionette lines. General advice welc
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Sun Oct 16, 2011 8:30 am

Hi,
I have been reading this forum on/off for about a year, it's so helpful but also a bit overwhelming lol.

So any advice at all would be really appreciated. I am 28 and starting an anti-ageing routine. I am noticing very fine lines on my forehead and marionette lines forming.
My current routine is very simple to say the least:
Cleanse (Mario Badescu)
Moisturise (Dermologica Intensive Moisture Balance)
Suncream (sunsense SPF50)
I also drink 2-3 litres of water/green tea a day, eat healthy, hardly wear make-up and exercise.
I am looking into retin-a (any recommended brands? especially in the UK?) and diy vitamin c serums but anything else I should be considering especially for my marionette lines?
Frownies? Exercises? Supplements?

I wanted to post pictures but it wouldn't let me as I am new. Sad

free skin care · Sun Oct 16, 2011 9:08 am

I have sensitive skin, so am a fan of the 'less is more' approach and gentle but effective ingredients. I also work in lifestyle healthcare so it's great to read you are already on board with that! Does your healthy eating include plenty of essential fatty acids - especially long chain omega-3s (DHA & EPA) - and a complete protein at each meal?

Would I be right in thinking that the Mario Badescu contains drying ingredients (e.g. AHAs, sulphate surfactants, benzoyl peroxide)? If so perhaps switch this for something kinder to skin, this alone could improve your fine lines if they are the result of dehydration rather than ageing. Then you might consider adding in a simple hyaluronic acid serum and/ or a moisturiser containing urea or lactic acid, both of which will exfoliate whilst hydrating. All three are the skin's natural moisturisers and gentler than retinols or vitamin C both of which are in your current moisturiser.

Sun Oct 16, 2011 9:30 am

Ah wow, so helpful firefox. You work in lifestyle healthcare? Ah I'm so jealous, that sounds so interesting. Smile

Yes, I eat protein at every meal - usually yoghurt, egg whites, lean meat as well as salmon once-twice a week, with lots of fruit/veg. Do you think I should take omega3 supplements too? I already have some but haven't taken them.

It's the Mario Badescu enzyme cleansing gel and yes, it is quite drying, My skin type is normal-dry so I think you might be right. The gel seems to help with break-outs around my period. Maybe I should look for a Dermologica cleanser instead?
I had no idea my moisturiser already had retinol and vitamin C so thank you for that.

"Then you might consider adding in a simple hyaluronic acid serum and/ or a moisturiser containing urea or lactic acid, both of which will exfoliate whilst hydrating."
Oooh, found a few hyaluronic acid serums. Do you have any suggestions for something with urea or lactic acid?

Again, thank you so much for your help.

Sun Oct 16, 2011 2:06 pm

I know facial training can get rid of marionette lines especially at your age. There are many programs to choose from so do your homework. Some people will tell you starting resistance training for the face when you're young is not a good idea but don't buy into that. The sooner you start the better. Facial resistance training is bodybuilding so naturally you could overbuild if you don't use your head. To be Honest if a facial training program says it can't overbuild your face you would be better off buying a really nice facial massage program. There are several of those on the market as well and several people here on the forum know some of the best. The best retin-A would be a RX

free skin care · Sun Oct 16, 2011 2:33 pm

I do love my job as healthcare is my passion AND I get paid to chat! Laughing

Your diet sounds great as it is but, as you have a supplement available, then you may as well try given that two portions of oily fish per week is a minimum not a maximum. My skin does well on 2g of combined DHA & EPA per day, but you may want to experiment for yourself.

Some of the regulars will be able to help more with specific commercial products, I was only going by a quick Google of the products you mentioned! As I have sensitive skin I started out with a serum from eBay which contains nothing more than 1% HA and a little vit. C as a preservative. A good moisturiser is Eucerin 5% urea face cream - very light yet surprisingly hydrating. You may prefer to stick with the Dermalogica if it suits you, just try a gentler cleanser and see how your skin reacts.

Sun Oct 16, 2011 2:47 pm

Hi Firefox

Quote:

A good moisturiser is Eucerin 5% urea face cream - very light yet surprisingly hydrating.

A lot of people think Eucerin is outdated but you are so right on that one. I love it Very Happy

!

free skin care · Sun Oct 16, 2011 3:04 pm

Tony1 wrote:

Hi Firefox

A lot of people think Eucerin is outdated but you are so right on that one. I love it Very Happy

!

Oh dear do they? Laughing

Urea creams are backed up by research; last I checked Eucerin is available on NHS prescription here in the UK, which speaks volumes.

That Eucerin is the best moisturiser I have ever tried, stopped using it as I became sensitive to it or the matching face wash (own fault, abusing my poor acid mantle Crying or Very sad

). Keep thinking I should purchase another tube ... Great to hear of another fan!

Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:15 am

Firefox7275 wrote:

Tony1 wrote:

Hi Firefox

A lot of people think Eucerin is outdated but you are so right on that one. I love it Very Happy

!

Oh dear do they? Laughing

Urea creams are backed up by research; last I checked Eucerin is available on NHS prescription here in the UK, which speaks volumes.

That Eucerin is the best moisturiser I have ever tried, stopped using it as I became sensitive to it or the matching face wash (own fault, abusing my poor acid mantle Crying or Very sad

). Keep thinking I should purchase another tube ... Great to hear of another fan!

Hi, I'm a newbie here and at the risk of getting kicked out of this forum Laughing

I'd like to tell you that Urine (your own, lol!) is very good for skin....urea is fom urine. I won't go into it indepth here as I'd go on for ages but I would encourage you to research this. I've used my own "widdle" for irritated eyes too. Works a treat.
Firefox, I believe that it should not irritate you sensitive skin.

Good luck all,
Fi

*takes coat off hook*

free skin care · Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:08 am

Firbolgbred wrote:

Hi, I'm a newbie here and at the risk of getting kicked out of this forum Laughing

I'd like to tell you that Urine (your own, lol!) is very good for skin....urea is fom urine. I won't go into it indepth here as I'd go on for ages but I would encourage you to research this. I've used my own "widdle" for irritated eyes too. Works a treat.
Firefox, I believe that it should not irritate you sensitive skin.

Good luck all,
Fi

*takes coat off hook*

Luckily for you being helpful is not an evictable offence here! Wink

I have no doubt urine can be effective, but I wouldn't personally use it. Urea that has not been stabilised breaks down to the irritant ammonia - one reason babies get dermatitis in the nappy (diaper) area. Furthermore I'd be concerned about bacterial contamination, unless you are home sterilising? Then there is collection ... I've wee'd on myself once too often collecting a sample for the doc. Sad

free skin care · Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:25 am

Now that is really interesting, because some time ago I saw a tv programme about a tribe in Africa and the women used their own urine to wash themselves with. They lived in a place where there was not much water, and claimed it made their skin nice and soft and healthy. I guess the ammonia thing only gets into play when you leave urine for a bit without too much oxygen - diaper rash due to urine happens generally when there is not enough ventilation going on (as happens in old fashioned diapers) and plenty of bacteria.

Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:54 am

Firefox7275 wrote:

Firbolgbred wrote:

Hi, I'm a newbie here and at the risk of getting kicked out of this forum Laughing

I'd like to tell you that Urine (your own, lol!) is very good for skin....urea is fom urine. I won't go into it indepth here as I'd go on for ages but I would encourage you to research this. I've used my own "widdle" for irritated eyes too. Works a treat.
Firefox, I believe that it should not irritate you sensitive skin.

Good luck all,
Fi

*takes coat off hook*

Luckily for you being helpful is not an evictable offence here! Wink

I have no doubt urine can be effective, but I wouldn't personally use it. Urea that has not been stabilised breaks down to the irritant ammonia - one reason babies get dermatitis in the nappy (diaper) area. Furthermore I'd be concerned about bacterial contamination, unless you are home sterilising? Then there is collection ... I've wee'd on myself once too often collecting a sample for the doc. Sad

Lol, yes, the collecting part definately involves skill.When I'm doing the treatments I tend to wash off and reapply with fresh widdle...it's great for acne, even cystic acne which is worth knowing as the cystic type is so stubborn. I've had 2 cystic acne spots in my life and they were getting so big i was thinking about applying for a national insurance number for them!
I don't home sterilise the urine as it's fresh and I have no UTI, also I read that fresh urine is sterile (I hope that's true! )
Confused

Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:59 am

Lotusesther wrote:

Now that is really interesting, because some time ago I saw a tv programme about a tribe in Africa and the women used their own urine to wash themselves with. They lived in a place where there was not much water, and claimed it made their skin nice and soft and healthy. I guess the ammonia thing only gets into play when you leave urine for a bit without too much oxygen - diaper rash due to urine happens generally when there is not enough ventilation going on (as happens in old fashioned diapers) and plenty of bacteria.

Hi ,Good point re the ventilation. I just remembered that many years ago my grandfather cut his hand sveverely whilst working on a building site. This was the late 40's and there was nowhere to wash and treat the cut so he weed on it. His workmate was also cut and did not wee on his injury, which later became infected yet my grandfathers injury healed just fine Surprised

free skin care · Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:38 am

Firbolgbred wrote:

Lol, yes, the collecting part definately involves skill.When I'm doing the treatments I tend to wash off and reapply with fresh widdle...it's great for acne, even cystic acne which is worth knowing as the cystic type is so stubborn. I've had 2 cystic acne spots in my life and they were getting so big i was thinking about applying for a national insurance number for them!
I don't home sterilise the urine as it's fresh and I have no UTI, also I read that fresh urine is sterile (I hope that's true! )
Confused

Urine is only sterile whilst in the bladder, as you say if there is no infection present. Three problems with that: you will not be aware of the early stages of an UTI, some genito-urinary infections are asymptomatic and the exit route is not sterile. Microbes can pass into the urethra plus urine passes over the folds of the vulva: I guess you could Hibiscrub your lady bits, but that could be painful. IMO you should consider filter sterilising the urine if you intend to apply it to broken skin or the eye area, particularly if you are sexually active. Embarassed

Firbolgbred wrote:

I guess the ammonia thing only gets into play when you leave urine for a bit without too much oxygen - diaper rash due to urine happens generally when there is not enough ventilation going on (as happens in old fashioned diapers) and plenty of bacteria.

If you have nothing better to do and are not squeamish here are some links. Wikipedia is not the the best source of scientific info but it's accurate enough for our purposes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irritant_diaper_dermatitis

Nice chatting to you; like most people I can be closed minded so it's good to have that challenged! Cool

free skin care · Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:53 pm

Firbolgbred, while I haven't tried urine therapy, I have read about it (I'm a huge fan of alternative medicine and so come across a lot of interesting things in my life) and I do know many people who use urine as part of their skincare regimen for the face and report amazing results. I also met a guy from Indian who practices internal application of urine therapy and he swore he never gets ill. It's something that his whole family has done for years.

Urine Therapy is known as Amaroli and is on old Yoga practice. You can read about it all over the Web and here's one place: http://www.universal-tao.com/article/urine_therapy.html

I don't know if it can help marionette lines because I haven't really heard reviews on it from that point of view, but people have reported glowing skin and blemishes diminishing and acne disappearing because of urine.

I think one thing to consider is while urine is "waste", that does not mean it is necessarily toxic, unless you have an infection. Rather it does get rid of whatever your body doesn't need, including excess nutrients like vitamin C which many are now finding is good used topically. So perhaps the vitamins in it in addition to the urea help. Also the acidity might also help with the pH balance of skin, especially if one is in an area where there's hard water. Whether there is truth or not to urine being a wonder, there are too many people who swear by it for me to dismiss it as poppycock. A lot of things that might have looked like "hocus pocus" like acupressure/Reflexology are slowly being accepted into integrated medicine. And the people who swear by this do not sterilize it or do any of that. Rather they use the fluid that comes out of them as it is, and are happy with results. More about UT at these links:

http://www.agamayoga.com/articles/amaroli.htm
http://www.heartlandhealing.com/pages/archive/urine_therapy/index.html

Sorry to hijack the thread, thinkforms, but the only thing I know of that can help marionette lines is face exercises because that's all I do. I have seen the same success with just about all. If you look at any of the sites that show before/after images, you will see improvement in that. I just recently posted some links in this thread.

I have never had them because I started face exercises before my face ever had anything wrong with it..so I guess I prevented them from every coming to be. Good luck in finding a solution that works.

Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:48 pm

I think the best things to try might be facial exercise and facial massage. I use several different facial exercise books/DVDs because the different ones each have their own strengths and weaknesses. The best facial massage I know of is Tanaka massage.

Tue Oct 18, 2011 12:23 pm

Hi Firefox, Thanks a lot for the info...I'll have a look at that but not now as it's too near my dinnertime Wink

It was really nice to chat to you too Smile

Hi Nonie, Thaks a million for al the great info and links too. I'd heard of Amaroli....it sounds like a fancy drink to me! Laughing

Id also like to apologise to Thinkforms for the tangent. I have just recently started to do a few facial yoga exercises and started using the Tua Viso and am keeping a photo record so will post info if/when I see improvements as marionette lines and naso-labial folds are amongst my (many!) concerns. After a week of doing the facial yoga daily there's no obvious discernible difference but my face feels better. Good luck

Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:24 am

Hi, I havent been posting due to feeling unwell, but im not bothered at all by the thread going off topic so no need to apologise, aw. Smile

Actually I found it interesting. I already have a generous sample of the Eucerin 5% Urea night cream. My partner said Urea was urine and I thought he was taking the pee so I ignored him. How funny. So I've been using it for a few nights and love it. It's thick but I guess that's because it's the night cream. My skin already feels softer, so I'll buy some (Boots are having 3 for 2 right now).

I'm going to read the facial exercises thread, might take a while lol. Thanks again for all your help.

Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:33 am

Oh and I also bought this book which has really good reviews - Optimum nutrition bible by Patrick Holford.

free skin care · Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:43 am

I really like the Tripollar STOP device for skin tightening it has done a great job of lifting the skin and helping to fade out a few fine lines. I highly recommend it.

Sat Oct 22, 2011 9:10 am

I got the flexeffect kit, can't wait to start. Thanks for the advice Smile

The Tua Viso and tripollar STOP devices look the same? Is there a thread to your progression Firbolgbred? Glad to hear that you are getting good results echoecho Smile

I'll have to put one on my christmas list.

I just need some advice on vitamin C serum if anyone could help please, I haven't had time to look into making my own yet and have been looking on eBay, is that a good place to start?
2 examples of listings I found are Item number: 140622105502 & Item number: 180726870453 (still can't post links).
Where do UK people get their vitamin C serums from?

free skin care · Sat Oct 22, 2011 9:24 am

thinkforms wrote:

I got the flexeffect kit, can't wait to start. Thanks for the advice Smile

The Tua Viso and tripollar STOP devices look the same? Is there a thread to your progression Firbolgbred? Glad to hear that you are getting good results echoecho Smile

I'll have to put one on my christmas list.

I just need some advice on vitamin C serum if anyone could help please, I haven't had time to look into making my own yet and have been looking on eBay, is that a good place to start?
2 examples of listings I found are Item number: 140622105502 & Item number: 180726870453 (still can't post links).
Where do UK people get their vitamin C serums from?

I'm twenty five but the STOP has given both me and also my mother who is in her sixties excellent results, at first she was extremely skeptical and upon watching the video was saying things like 'if it worked then the doctor wouldn't look so old' well needless to say she loved the results and actually admitted to being wrong which she never does Razz

I told her this Christmas I'm going to get her one and she said 'I can just use yours' like she has been Rolling Eyes

It not only works in the short term like using it the night before going somewhere important will give instant temporary results but also works in the long term.

Its based on radiofrequency technology which is different to the Tua Viso (which is microcurrent technology).

I love my STOP it's definitely HG for me and has provided far better results than any in clinic treatment has for me inc carboxytherapy, refirm, microdermabrasion, and even botox which is supposed to be the gold standard.

free skin care · Sat Oct 22, 2011 9:36 am

Oops sorry completely forgot to answer your question in regards to the Vitamin C Embarassed

Well after noticing some high end brands touting there own pure vitamin C additives (that come with small spoon and you just add a scoop to your moisturizer before applying) which are basically just Ascorbic Acid with no preservatives, I bought a jar of pure Ascorbic acid from eBay and have just been applying a tiny spoonful to my moisturizer, just lie the high end brands recommend but without the HUGE price tag that goes with it. One of the brand is Philosophy (I beleive) and also a brand called Skinstitute also sells the pur Vitamin C in powder form.

free skin care · Sat Oct 22, 2011 5:35 pm

thinkforms wrote:

I just need some advice on vitamin C serum if anyone could help please, I haven't had time to look into making my own yet and have been looking on eBay, is that a good place to start?
2 examples of listings I found are Item number: 140622105502 & Item number: 180726870453 (still can't post links).
Where do UK people get their vitamin C serums from?

I am in the UK but haven't ordered a C serum as yet, will be making my own as I am concerned about product stability. I ordered Matrixyl 3000/ HA (which you linked to) and Argireline/ HA from eBay seller Chemessence. They are based in the US but prices are good, delivery is prompt, after sales service was great (queries answered quickly and honestly). They stock vitamin C as it is used as a preservative, so you might ask them about a serum? I felt with many UK eBay sellers I would be paying for fancy packaging and unnecessary ingredients, I just wanted to try the actives at researched percentages for a fair price. Even if you do not purchase it's worth looking at the prices on, say, Lotion Crafter so you know how little a 30ml serum will cost in materials alone

HTH.

Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:28 am

thinkforms wrote:

I got the flexeffect kit, can't wait to start. Thanks for the advice Smile

The Tua Viso and tripollar STOP devices look the same? Is there a thread to your progression Firbolgbred? Glad to hear that you are getting good results echoecho Smile

I'll have to put one on my christmas list.

I just need some advice on vitamin C serum if anyone could help please, I haven't had time to look into making my own yet and have been looking on eBay, is that a good place to start?
2 examples of listings I found are Item number: 140622105502 & Item number: 180726870453 (still can't post links).
Where do UK people get their vitamin C serums from?

Hi Thinkforms,

It's too soon to say if there are any visible results I think, I don't see any difference anyway.My face definately feels better though so something must be happening underneath and hopefully I'll have some positive results to report in the next couple of months between the facial yoga and the Tua Viso. I hope your regime is going well. Smile

Good luck,
Fi

free skin care · Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:18 pm

Hi,

My advice is this. Lines on your face happen, the less you obssess about them the better you will look and feel.

I do get good results with the Tanaka massage (a free instruction video is on YouTube). This massage simply increases circulation to the skin and helps with lymph drainage to reduce chronic puffiness. My experience is that it's also very helpful in relaxing the facial muscles to assist with lines that come from having the muscles continuously fixed in a position. Frown lines etc.

Your skin care routine is fine. I have used a high potency Vit C serum for the past 6 months and do think it's honestly overrated. I make my own so I know its potency (15% at pH 3) and that it is absolutely fresh. If you have good skin already then Vit C wont make a fig of difference to it. The before and after results of such products are usually on people with quite deteriorated and very dehydrated skin. In those cases it may make a difference. In my case my Vit C is a moisturizer and that's it. Save your money.

I am 40 with skin comparable to most 30yr olds. I've only just taken up a skincare routine in the past 4yrs due to a job in a harsh environment. Prior to that I used daily sunscreen and not much else. I'm doing ok.

At your age I would steer clear of Retin-A products as many users report an initial, improvement in their skin followed by an increase in fine lines, which is when they usually go looking for something else. Read all the Retin-A diaries on here before you buy it.

The only thing I regret in my skincare is not

appreciating the skin I had at your age. Like you I spent far too much time looking at miniscule lines in the mirror and buying into the whole 'you're getting old now' social conditioning. It caused me a lot of unhappiness which was totally unnecessary. After 35 I decided to just appreciate what I've got and my life has transformed. I look great for my age and my 28yr old fiancé thinks so too.

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