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Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:14 pm  |
| Thank you Havana for moving this! |
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havana8
Moderator
 
Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Posts: 3449
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Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:23 pm |
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Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:24 pm |
Thank You Havana!  |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:51 pm |
Did I miss something? The other side looks more expensive. |
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The best way to locate your cat is to open a can of food. |
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Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:59 pm |
| Frodo wrote: |
Did I miss something? The other side looks more expensive. |
Which Frodo the AQ compared to the Dr. Nathans?
I see a lot of products from the Nathan site!
ETA: I see on the AQ site....TIA has AQ Skin Solutions Active Serum ($149.99 for 1oz) |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:04 am |
| Frodo wrote: |
Did I miss something? The other side looks more expensive. |
Ones is more expensive by alot, ones actually a bit less, if the Re Luma had not been on sale.
This shows other companies sites, showing their science on cytokines and why they think they are good and what results they are claiming. It gives choices to those wanting to try a product with this technology. Just more to choose from, since what works for one doesn't always work for another.
I believe someone is trying the AQ, from a different thread I read. So we'll get feedback at some point on that product. |
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havana8
Moderator
Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Posts: 3449
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Thu Jul 26, 2012 5:50 pm |
Wow thanks Havana, when I first searched, not long ago at all, the only ones that came up were ReLuma, lumenese (but this one was hard to find on searches), some off name (so it scared me) and one other that really was not stem cells!
This fields growing FASTTTTTTTTTTTTTT!!! Got to love choice. Perhaps I'll search tomorrow and see what the prices for all are! |
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Thu Jul 26, 2012 5:56 pm |
| Tiny wrote: |
Wow thanks Havana, when I first searched, not long ago at all, the only ones that came up were ReLuma, lumenese (but this one was hard to find on searches), some off name (so it scared me) and one other that really was not stem cells!
This fields growing FASTTTTTTTTTTTTTT!!! Got to love choice. Perhaps I'll search tomorrow and see what the prices for all are! |
Havana nailed it, we have seen most discussed on EDS at some point! |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Thu Jul 26, 2012 6:20 pm |
| Now we just need an unbiased expert to tell us which one is the best and why! |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:10 pm |
| bethany wrote: |
| Now we just need an unbiased expert to tell us which one is the best and why! |
I'd prefer the unbiased expert to be other users reviews. We need more people using different ones! |
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Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:52 pm |
| Tiny wrote: |
| bethany wrote: |
| Now we just need an unbiased expert to tell us which one is the best and why! |
I'd prefer the unbiased expert to be other users reviews. We need more people using different ones! |
I am voting with you on that Tiny, I have read enough biased expert posts to last me a lifetime, but hell that is just me.......no not from what I hear. Oh well. |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Fri Jul 27, 2012 6:36 am |
Here's another one:
http://www.stemulance.com/about-stemulance.html
Stemulance, Stemulation and AnteAge all use the same before and after photos. |
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Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Fri Jul 27, 2012 6:59 am |
In choosing a product I would discard those that promise to lift sagging jowls or restore volume. However technologically promising, I don't think a topical can restore elasticity to the facial ligaments or shorten them, or restore subcutaneous facial fat.
Before/after pictures are very nice, but I would like to see histological evidence. Trials sound nice, but especially with such results you would expect them to be published somewhere to be reviewed by peers.
Skin repair adresses texture. N/L folds etc. are not caused by surface skin texture but deeper changes, which is why you'd need exercise or surgery to improve them. Fine lines and deeper wrinkles, yes that is texture, but contours are a different thing. I therefore distrust any before/afters that show improvement in these structures - either the picture has been doctored, or there has been some other kind of procedure done.
Just my 2 cts. |
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Tue Aug 28, 2012 7:07 am |
| If you're looking for products with cytokines, I think that EDS lets you search by ingredients. DermStore might also allow ingredient searches. |
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Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:27 pm |
I'd like to see histology reports results instead of 'before and after' photos. Photos can so easily be deceiving with lighting, distance, angles, etc. but histology is irrefutable. Gimme test results from experiments done on human subjects, gimme double blind peer reviewed studies, gimme histology...and then I'll take notice of these topical stem cell and cytokine products.  But then again, I'm persnickety and not prone to throwing away hundreds of dollars on someting someone just claims works...I want proof. |
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Tue Aug 28, 2012 6:15 pm |
| EthelM wrote: |
| I'd like to see histology reports results instead of 'before and after' photos. Photos can so easily be deceiving with lighting, distance, angles, etc. but histology is irrefutable. Gimme test results from experiments done on human subjects, gimme double blind peer reviewed studies, gimme histology...and then I'll take notice of these topical stem cell and cytokine products. But then again, I'm persnickety and not prone to throwing away hundreds of dollars on someting someone just claims works...I want proof. |
A good many of us are also waiting for some clinical trials which show concrete biological changes to the skin - but where are they? |
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Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:06 pm |
| Keliu wrote: |
| EthelM wrote: |
| I'd like to see histology reports results instead of 'before and after' photos. Photos can so easily be deceiving with lighting, distance, angles, etc. but histology is irrefutable. Gimme test results from experiments done on human subjects, gimme double blind peer reviewed studies, gimme histology...and then I'll take notice of these topical stem cell and cytokine products. But then again, I'm persnickety and not prone to throwing away hundreds of dollars on someting someone just claims works...I want proof. |
A good many of us are also waiting for some clinical trials which show concrete biological changes to the skin - but where are they? |
sorry to say: Don't hold your breath.
IMO all topical cytokine product manufacturers, through their current marketing promos and pitches, already believe that they have enough conclusive evidence/research results/individual customer feedback etc. that "proves" their product "works".
Enough people are buying the cell-tech products with those marketing promises, so cell-tech manufacturers can claim they've given you/me/us/the public sufficient clinical proof and so IMO manufactureres believe they have nOtHiNg ElSe to prove to anyone. |
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Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:58 am |
| Kath91 wrote: |
| Keliu wrote: |
| EthelM wrote: |
| I'd like to see histology reports results instead of 'before and after' photos. Photos can so easily be deceiving with lighting, distance, angles, etc. but histology is irrefutable. Gimme test results from experiments done on human subjects, gimme double blind peer reviewed studies, gimme histology...and then I'll take notice of these topical stem cell and cytokine products. But then again, I'm persnickety and not prone to throwing away hundreds of dollars on someting someone just claims works...I want proof. |
A good many of us are also waiting for some clinical trials which show concrete biological changes to the skin - but where are they? |
sorry to say: Don't hold your breath.
IMO all topical cytokine product manufacturers, through their current marketing promos and pitches, already believe that they have enough conclusive evidence/research results/individual customer feedback etc. that "proves" their product "works".
Enough people are buying the cell-tech products with those marketing promises, so cell-tech manufacturers can claim they've given you/me/us/the public sufficient clinical proof and so IMO manufactureres believe they have nOtHiNg ElSe to prove to anyone. |
Instead, I would posit that these manufacturers feel they have enough "proof" to convince consumers that their products are effective, which is a horse of a different color! |
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Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:02 am |
LoopyLori posted punch tests she found long ago, perhaps this is what everyone is looking for:
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=45705
last page
this is pics of clinically measured results:
http://www.cellvitals.com/before-and-after
not sure this information works for all of these products, but there are studies, not sure why everyone keeps saying there are not. Def not pushing RL, its just what I could find as far as studies that have already been posted. |
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Reluma, PMD. Never sit on a fence, you get shot by both sides. |
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Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:24 am |
I don't see histological evidence, or a research protocol, just a few pictures. I can't help but notice that the first lady looks very much like a lady in the 'study' that was on dr J,'s site (the one NanSam posted about).
If the stuff would really be very effective it would be used, I think, in post operative protocols for people with cancer, people with skin damaged from radiotherapy or burn victims. There is plenty of reason why serious medicine would be interested in effective skin remodeling agents. So far a lot of stuff we use has been tested for accelerated wound healing etc., so the pharmaceutical industry is interested and willing to fund research. When I consider this I find it increasingly surprising that we can't seem to find any serious study on the subject. |
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Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:51 am |
| Lotusesther wrote: |
I don't see histological evidence, or a research protocol, just a few pictures. I can't help but notice that the first lady looks very much like a lady in the 'study' that was on dr J,'s site (the one NanSam posted about).
If the stuff would really be very effective it would be used, I think, in post operative protocols for people with cancer, people with skin damaged from radiotherapy or burn victims. There is plenty of reason why serious medicine would be interested in effective skin remodeling agents. So far a lot of stuff we use has been tested for accelerated wound healing etc., so the pharmaceutical industry is interested and willing to fund research. When I consider this I find it increasingly surprising that we can't seem to find any serious study on the subject. |
I posted the link to loops links showing the histological evidence with protocols, as well as double blind studies, and wound healing roles, posted by pubmed.gov, as well as studies with punch tests, so here are the links she posted:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18569263
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17966179
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17373178
Maybe this is what your looking for.
to sum it up all 3 studies say it is effective for anti-aging. |
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Reluma, PMD. Never sit on a fence, you get shot by both sides. |
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Wed Aug 29, 2012 8:13 am |
| Tiny wrote: |
| Lotusesther wrote: |
I don't see histological evidence, or a research protocol, just a few pictures. I can't help but notice that the first lady looks very much like a lady in the 'study' that was on dr J,'s site (the one NanSam posted about).
If the stuff would really be very effective it would be used, I think, in post operative protocols for people with cancer, people with skin damaged from radiotherapy or burn victims. There is plenty of reason why serious medicine would be interested in effective skin remodeling agents. So far a lot of stuff we use has been tested for accelerated wound healing etc., so the pharmaceutical industry is interested and willing to fund research. When I consider this I find it increasingly surprising that we can't seem to find any serious study on the subject. |
I posted the link to loops links showing the histological evidence with protocols, as well as double blind studies, and wound healing roles, posted by pubmed.gov, as well as studies with punch tests, so here are the links she posted:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18569263
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17966179
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17373178
Maybe this is what your looking for.
to sum it up all 3 studies say it is effective for anti-aging. |
These above studies were all done by the manufacturer of a skincare product. That skincare product is now nearly defunct, so if it was as effective as these studies claim, it would be selling off the shelves. |
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Wed Aug 29, 2012 8:18 am |
Scientists don't rely on photos, like these; instead they look at histology, which is missing from the available "evidence". I think that histology reports and actual lab results are missing is suspect. Photos are often made available to fool consumers. |
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