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Thu Jun 06, 2013 4:48 am  |
Do you need to use as much physical sunscreen as you would chemical sunscreen? They say that you should use 1/2 tsp on your face, 1/2 tsp on your neck, and 1 tsp each for exposed areas on arms and legs. However,this recommendation is usually for chemical sunscreen and physical sunscreens just go with it, like they have to go with the 2 year expiration date because of the FDA.
DermTv states that you only need to use about 1/2 the physical sunscreen amount that you would use for chemical sunscreen. Is that true?
I don't want to shortchange myself by using too little, but perhaps the reason why I am having all of the problems with chalkiness and oiliness is due to using too much. I have looked online for physical sunscreen guidelines, but other than the DermTv suggestions, have found nothing else. I should go to a local dermatologist, but I don;t know if my insurance will accept the sunscreen issue as a reason to approve my visit.
What do you all think? |
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havana8
Moderator
 
Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Posts: 3449
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Thu Jun 06, 2013 7:15 am |
Aside from the standard recommendation for sunscreen application:
| Quote: |
Application Thickness
Many consumers believe that simply applying just enough sunscreen to cover exposed skin is sufficient to protect against sun damage. A standard application thickness of 2 g/cm2 is recommended, as this is the thickness used during FDA testing procedures for quantifying the SPF. If a less-than-recommended thickness is used, the actual SPF value of the product may be drastically diminished. A consumer could use an SPF 30 product, but if a lesser thickness is applied, the product may actually be closer to SPF 15. Studies have documented that real-world application practices of sunscreen products typically are closer to 0.5 g/cm2.[16] Typically, at least 1 oz. (2 tbsp.) of sunscreen is needed to cover all exposed areas of the arms, legs, neck, ears, and face. For the average-sized person, this equates to the amount it takes to fill a shot glass. An additional amount may be required to cover the back and chest.
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/763497_6
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this was all I could find:
| Quote: |
Question 1: How much sunscreen/sunblock do you have to apply?
Answer: For chemical sunscreens, you have to apply at least a third of a teaspoon in order to have a degree of protection. Many dermatologists also suggest their clients to at least apply 1/2 teaspoon or 1 teaspoon to cover their entire face and neck.
For physical sunblock, it depends on the product. Yes, in the 1990s, there have been some sunblocks that actually require you to use 1 tablespoon for sufficient protection. However, the Laneige sunblock and most other modern physical sunblocks only requires you to use a pea sized amount to cover your face (not including your neck), so that you actually apply less than chemical sunscreen. Why? Modern formulas have found a way to press the zinc and titanium dioxide closer together so that they are more densely packed. So a modern pea sized sunblock actually contain as much zinc and titanium dioxide as a tablespoon of sunblock made in the 1980s.
http://aquabeautydream.blogspot.ca/2010/07/differences-between-chemical-sunscreen.html |
There's also this post from Josh:
| Josh wrote: |
It doesn't matter whether it's physical or chemical, sunscreens the world over are tested in exactly the same way, 2mg/cm2 on clean skin with nothing else applied before or after. I'm mentioning this because we don't know whether applying other products before (or after) will reduce your sunscreens protection. When they're tested and rated they are the only product applied. So I feel safer applying them in a way that as closely as possible matches the way in which they were tested.
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=39849 |
HTHs! |
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Thu Jun 06, 2013 8:32 am |
| havana8 wrote: |
Aside from the standard recommendation for sunscreen application:
| Quote: |
Application Thickness
Many consumers believe that simply applying just enough sunscreen to cover exposed skin is sufficient to protect against sun damage. A standard application thickness of 2 g/cm2 is recommended, as this is the thickness used during FDA testing procedures for quantifying the SPF. If a less-than-recommended thickness is used, the actual SPF value of the product may be drastically diminished. A consumer could use an SPF 30 product, but if a lesser thickness is applied, the product may actually be closer to SPF 15. Studies have documented that real-world application practices of sunscreen products typically are closer to 0.5 g/cm2.[16] Typically, at least 1 oz. (2 tbsp.) of sunscreen is needed to cover all exposed areas of the arms, legs, neck, ears, and face. For the average-sized person, this equates to the amount it takes to fill a shot glass. An additional amount may be required to cover the back and chest.
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/763497_6
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this was all I could find:
| Quote: |
Question 1: How much sunscreen/sunblock do you have to apply?
Answer: For chemical sunscreens, you have to apply at least a third of a teaspoon in order to have a degree of protection. Many dermatologists also suggest their clients to at least apply 1/2 teaspoon or 1 teaspoon to cover their entire face and neck.
For physical sunblock, it depends on the product. Yes, in the 1990s, there have been some sunblocks that actually require you to use 1 tablespoon for sufficient protection. However, the Laneige sunblock and most other modern physical sunblocks only requires you to use a pea sized amount to cover your face (not including your neck), so that you actually apply less than chemical sunscreen. Why? Modern formulas have found a way to press the zinc and titanium dioxide closer together so that they are more densely packed. So a modern pea sized sunblock actually contain as much zinc and titanium dioxide as a tablespoon of sunblock made in the 1980s.
http://aquabeautydream.blogspot.ca/2010/07/differences-between-chemical-sunscreen.html |
There's also this post from Josh:
| Josh wrote: |
It doesn't matter whether it's physical or chemical, sunscreens the world over are tested in exactly the same way, 2mg/cm2 on clean skin with nothing else applied before or after. I'm mentioning this because we don't know whether applying other products before (or after) will reduce your sunscreens protection. When they're tested and rated they are the only product applied. So I feel safer applying them in a way that as closely as possible matches the way in which they were tested.
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=39849 |
HTHs! |
Isn't it confusing???? |
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Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:15 pm |
Oh my gosh! There's just no way I can get that amount of sunscreen on my face! I'm pretty sure that none of my girlfriends apply that much! |
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Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:37 pm |
| Penta wrote: |
Oh my gosh! There's just no way I can get that amount of sunscreen on my face! I'm pretty sure that none of my girlfriends apply that much! |
Oh there is a way. Where there is a will... 
It's actually not that hard to do. Many of us here have no issues doing it. Use some kind of tint if you get too white using zinc oxide.
Hardly anyone uses the correct amount of sunscreen and hardly anyone get's the protection they think they are getting. |
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Thu Jun 06, 2013 4:22 pm |
Oof, that's rough. Are there any issues with breakouts with that amount of sunscreen? that seems like a huge amount to put on a face 
Thank you for the advice about the tint. I might try and mix my sunscreen with foundation. It's the zinc oxide that gives the whitish cast, right? I just ordered Clarins UV Plus HP Day Screen High Protection SPF 40 which contains titanium dioxide (no zinc which I realize doesn't protect against UVA I which worries me slightly). Does that leave a white cast, too? And what about chemical sunscreens, would an amount like that leave a cast? Are there are any other advantages to using a physical sunscreen apart from avoiding stuff like Retinyl Palmitate and oxyzbenzone (not that those aren't big advantages)? |
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Thu Jun 06, 2013 4:38 pm |
| Penta wrote: |
Oof, that's rough. Are there any issues with breakouts with that amount of sunscreen? that seems like a huge amount to put on a face
Thank you for the advice about the tint. I might try and mix my sunscreen with foundation. It's the zinc oxide that gives the whitish cast, right? I just ordered Clarins UV Plus HP Day Screen High Protection SPF 40 which contains titanium dioxide (no zinc which I realize doesn't protect against UVA I which worries me slightly). Does that leave a white cast, too? And what about chemical sunscreens, would an amount like that leave a cast? Are there are any other advantages to using a physical sunscreen apart from avoiding stuff like Retinyl Palmitate and oxyzbenzone (not that those aren't big advantages)? |
That picture actually makes it look like a lot more than it really is. As far as mixing foundation with sunscreen, they say not to mix liquid foundation with sunscreen because it will dilute the sunscreen, but you can mix a little mineral foundation powder into sunscreen because mineral foundation is comprised of zinc oxide and titanium dioxide and won't affect your sunscreen's strength.
I just started using Juice Beauty Sport Moisturizer with sunscreen and LOVE it...so much I just bought 4 more. It's very hghly rated on EGW, has a slight tint, and absorbs very well. |
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Thu Jun 06, 2013 6:36 pm |
| Penta wrote: |
Oof, that's rough. Are there any issues with breakouts with that amount of sunscreen? that seems like a huge amount to put on a face
Thank you for the advice about the tint. I might try and mix my sunscreen with foundation. It's the zinc oxide that gives the whitish cast, right? I just ordered Clarins UV Plus HP Day Screen High Protection SPF 40 which contains titanium dioxide (no zinc which I realize doesn't protect against UVA I which worries me slightly). Does that leave a white cast, too? And what about chemical sunscreens, would an amount like that leave a cast? Are there are any other advantages to using a physical sunscreen apart from avoiding stuff like Retinyl Palmitate and oxyzbenzone (not that those aren't big advantages)? |
This is an excellent liquid tint with zinc and titanium dioxide http://ncnskincare.com/mineral-makeup-c-9/final-clearance-mineral-liquid-to-powder-makeup-spf-15-p-154
Titanium dioxide does protect against UV rays, but not nearly as effective as zinc oxide. Zinc protects thru the whole UV spectrum. Titanium only partially. Best to go with zinc oxide.
Only you can decide if a sunscreen leaves a cast or not. Too many variable such as skin tone. The main advantage of zinc oxide over chemical sunscreens is you don't have to re-apply as often. Chemical sunscreens break down in UV light and can cause free radical damage (UV) unless re-applied every 2 hours or so.That's whether your on the beach or not. A major hassle hardly anyone bothers to do.Tinosorb M is a chemical agent in European sunscreens that is very stable and resists UV breakdown. |
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Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:31 am |
Thanks so much Pandax!
Just read up on Tinosorb M and EGW recommends it, too. As I'm in Europe right now I will try and grab a sunscreen that contains that rather than zinc. Just to make sure, I will still have to put a massive amount on my face though, right? 
(I'll find a way to do it but still ) |
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Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:53 am |
Ugh, nevermind. Apparently I can't apply moisturizer underneath a chemical sunscreen because it interrupts the chemicals binding to the skin properly. Moisturizer is a must for my incredibly dry skin.
Back to looking for a lightweight zinc one |
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Fri Jun 07, 2013 5:15 am |
| Penta wrote: |
Ugh, nevermind. Apparently I can't apply moisturizer underneath a chemical sunscreen because it interrupts the chemicals binding to the skin properly. Moisturizer is a must for my incredibly dry skin.
Back to looking for a lightweight zinc one |
I finally found my HG...Juice Beauty Sport SPF 30 moisturizer...has SPF 30 in it and is highly recommended by the EWG. I lucked out and found a sale...just bought 4 for $40. It's usually $16 each which still isn't bad. That's my daily suncreen and I use at least 1/4 teaspoon daily on my face. It looks whitish for a few minutes (has a light tint in it), but then absorbs and looks great.
I will still use a separate sunscreen for outside days. |
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