$100 to spend on facial device?
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free skin care · Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:50 pm

bethany wrote:

Dermarolling eliminated the crows feet around my eyes, but I had limited results on forehead wrinkles and the 11's.

However, I have started using Frownies again (I will be using the packing tape alternatives posted when I finish these up) and am seeing some improvement since my 11's are due to me sleeping on my side. I am hoping that the combo of tape at night and rebuilding the collagen with the roller will help they go away this time.

Regarding these recommendations...rolling is NOT for everyone. Frankly I find it horribly painful, and dread doing it so much that I stopped for 3 years! Shock

So you need to pick what YOU feel is best for you, no matter what clinical studies say or people recommend. Smile

Ugh...terribly painful does NOT sound like something I'd do on any kind of consistent basis. What needle size were/are you using? That's another issue for me. If it's not something I can do quickly, preferably every night I won't stick to it. If I have to figure out a schedule, I probably won't stick to it. The rolling didn't seem to sound too time consuming.

The PMD is out of my price range unless someone has it for around 100 USD, it's 180 at the sites I've found it at.

Studies can be skewed, so I don't put a whole lot of faith in them either, unless maybe you can find me one on the Mayo Clinic website. A lot of the before and after shots (in particular from a few sites selling dermarollers) seem questionable. I used to be a professional photographer and I know what a difference a simple directional change of lighting can make.

free skin care · Mon Jun 25, 2012 7:07 pm

[What are the issues you have with texture? Is it enlarged pores, roughness, orange peel or something else? Is dehydration an issue? Have you tried any acid peels? I don't necessarily mean hardcore burn-your-face-off peels, even just light exfoliation. Have you considered facial exercise?

I grew my fringe (bangs) out which concentrated my mind on this area! Laughing

I don't have any firmness issues and am not rolling the full face, so it would not be fair of me to comment on that. My elevens are significantly improved and the hyperpigmentation/ melasma is breaking up, which is really encouraging IMO. Horizontal forehead lines no change yet but I haven't been focussing on them long enough (less than six months).

It's also relevant to say that, unlike many others, I have not consistently used any of the common proven anti-ageing actives over the time I have been dermarolling. This is mostly because I have sensitive/ eczematous skin so was focussing on barrier repair. Confused

If you do use those your results should be maximised.[/quote]

Normal to dry skin, enlarged pores, orange peel skin on the nose and areas beside nose which I believe is mostly due to sagging because other areas don't exhibit this (forehead, cheekbone areas, chin...the skin there has fairly refined texture).

Some pretty serious 11's and horizontal forehead lines, nasolabial lines and jowels starting... Surprised

(

I have a facial flex and the flex effect program and haven't used either with any consistency. No peels or anything...Paying for college for kids doesn't leave a lot of money for things like that. That's why it's such a tough decision, spending $100 on a skincare item is not something I get to do often...

No history of acne so scarring's not an issue.
Some hyperpigmentation from sun damage but not extensive.

free skin care · Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:00 am

Studies can indeed be skewed but there are 'mad scientists' on this and other skincare boards who have run through the articles and websites linked to. Not sure why you trust the Mayo Clinic over a respected peer-reviewed journal? Bethany is thorough in her research and I really respect her opinions, although we have different approaches to some aspects of skincare. Smile

It's no secret around here that I am conservative, and consider hydration and barrier repair to be the foundation of every skincare regime, from anti-ageing to acne. I'm also on a tight budget! Confused

IMO work on hydration, and find a way to start consistently using one of the facial exercise programme which you have already paid for. Maybe then in a month or two reassess what gadget you want to purchase: you may find your priorities have shifted slightly.

Firstly hydration/ barrier integrity - IMO the best effect is gained if every product in your routine is working towards the same goal, so no stripping or irritant foaming cleansers. Hydrate with a combination of lipids and humectants naturally found in the skin barrier. These include cholesterol, ceramides, saturated fatty acids (stearic and palmitic), urea, lactic acid, and glycosaminoglycans. As we age many of these deplete, of the lipids particularly cholesterol. CeraVe is a decent commercial moisturiser containing a balance of these lipids. If you prefer natural ingredients look for medical grade lanolin (cholesterol), lecithin (ceramide precursors), West African shea butter (stearic acid), palm fruit oil (palmitic acid). My skin absolutely loves lanolin and I get a visible plumping, but I'm also loving the serum I am using containing lecithin. I favour aloe vera for a humectant, because it also has research proven anti-ageing properties (anti-inflammatory, collagen inducing, antioxidant, healing) and is super gentle. Do also hydrate your skin from the inside with plenty of essential fatty acids - especially those from oily fish - and be sure to get your 10,000 steps every day for blood flow to the skin.

Peels can be inexpensive, you can do them at home diluting your own acid. I am too scared for anything hardcore, just light lactic acid peels (22 to 44%) which leaves the skin silky soft and smooth. Lactic acid is both a keratolytic (exfoliant) and humectant (hydrating) and, depending how it is used, may increase collagen and ceramides in the skin. The molecule is large so cannot accidentally penetrate too deeply. Check out the brief and detailed descriptions for more information, you can purchase the actual product many places. http://stores.skinessentialactives.com/-strse-115/Lactic-acid-88-pct--/Detail.bok
You MUST use a good physical sunscreen daily if you are using acids or other photosensitisers. Even this can work double duty if you select carefully, for example this Devita (which many use on the face) is packed with hydrating and anti-ageing ingredients
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/devita-solar-body-block-s-p_14233.htm

HTH. Wink

free skin care · Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:59 am

Firefox,

Thanks so much for all the info!

I'm not saying I don't trust anything I read online but some sites do seem a little suspect in their assessments. Wink

I actually considered the Cerave as my son seems to like it for his psoriasis. Is there a specific Cerave for face? Also, can this be used undereye as well?

I think I may take your advice and delay making a decision. I'll have to figure out which facial exercises to try to stick to. I know myself well enough to know I won't do a 30 minute routine...the FE program was pretty time consuming.

Thanks for the link for peel supplies. I'll check that out for sure as I was thinking about trying that awhile ago and just never got around to it.

I do really like the way drybrushing feels, slthough right now I'm just using a regular plastic bristle facial brush as I haven't located a natural bristle one locally yet. Even with the one I'm using, my face feels really smooth after doing it.

Thanks again!

free skin care · Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:21 am

Lorraineg57 wrote:

Firefox,

Thanks so much for all the info!

I'm not saying I don't trust anything I read online but some sites do seem a little suspect in their assessments. Wink

I actually considered the Cerave as my son seems to like it for his psoriasis. Is there a specific Cerave for face? Also, can this be used undereye as well?

I think I may take your advice and delay making a decision. I'll have to figure out which facial exercises to try to stick to. I know myself well enough to know I won't do a 30 minute routine...the FE program was pretty time consuming.

Thanks for the link for peel supplies. I'll check that out for sure as I was thinking about trying that awhile ago and just never got around to it.

I do really like the way drybrushing feels, slthough right now I'm just using a regular plastic bristle facial brush as I haven't located a natural bristle one locally yet. Even with the one I'm using, my face feels really smooth after doing it.

Thanks again!

I am all for you being discerning and analytical, there is far more rubbish than scientific fact written in the media - online or in print. Sad

I don't think you will find an effective LED that is much less time consuming than facial exercise, unfortunately. Not really sure what microdermabrasion would achieve over and above your dry brushing. Don't overdo that, manual exfoliation can increase micro inflammation which is damaging to the skin.

AFAIK CeraVe can be used all over, including the eye area. The PM lotion contains niacinamide which is beneficial for hyperpigmentation and can increase collagen synthesis. Works synergistically with kinetin and/ or N-acetyl glucosamine, so longer term you might consider adding these actives in. Excuse my lazy referencing of a store, but I know their attention to the research is sound and you can click through to the abstracts from there.
http://stores.skinessentialactives.com/-strse-18/Niacinamide-fdsh--Vitamin-B3--fdsh-/Detail.bok
http://stores.skinessentialactives.com/-strse-93/Kinetin-DIY-kit%2C-SeaKinNiaNAG/Detail.bok

You might speak with the FlexEffect people about a truncated routine? ClaudiaFE seems very helpful and is online regularly; SeanySeanUK posted this the other day "Rarely do I ever advise people to go out on all 30 exercises straight off – and with any program out there it’s a bit of a silly idea to do so. Because it’s a new learning experience for the person. So what I would usually have suggested is a shortform of beginning with a few exercises for a few weeks and adding, building up to all 30 exercises for sure."

free skin care · Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:33 pm

Firefox7275 wrote:

Studies can indeed be skewed but there are 'mad scientists' on this and other skincare boards who have run through the articles and websites linked to. Not sure why you trust the Mayo Clinic over a respected peer-reviewed journal? Bethany is thorough in her research and I really respect her opinions, although we have different approaches to some aspects of skincare. Smile

Thank you Firefox. Smile

I agree with you 100% on the importance of hydration and barrier repair/protection. I think I am actually going to look into aloe...I didn't realize it was a humectant!

free skin care · Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:36 pm

bethany wrote:

Firefox7275 wrote:

Studies can indeed be skewed but there are 'mad scientists' on this and other skincare boards who have run through the articles and websites linked to. Not sure why you trust the Mayo Clinic over a respected peer-reviewed journal? Bethany is thorough in her research and I really respect her opinions, although we have different approaches to some aspects of skincare. Smile

Thank you Firefox. Smile

I agree with you 100% on the importance of hydration and barrier repair/protection. I think I am actually going to look into aloe...I didn't realize it was a humectant!

there is a thread here on EDS which mentioned that aloe causes glycation and thus skin aging with long term usage.. it had some links of the studies as well

free skin care · Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:12 am

daler wrote:

there is a thread here on EDS which mentioned that aloe causes glycation and thus skin aging with long term usage.. it had some links of the studies as well

Thanks for posting Daler. Can you please link to the study which demonstrated chronic use of aloe vera causes skin ageing? I can't find that either on EDS nor in the literature.

Threads you might be referring to. I can't find the source of Lisacollins00 post, it appears to be lifted verbatim from another forum which, in turn, is an unreferenced copy and paste.
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=26773
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=35352

The case for the prosecution is from 2001
http://forum.lef.org/default.aspx?f=38&m=17177
And the defence from 2003
http://www.nancykbrown.com/images/stories/Aloe%20Vera%20a%20review%20of%20the%20scientific%20literature.pdf

A selection of the positive studies linked to here, including stuff from the last decade
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=44821
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=43880&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=25

free skin care · Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:41 am

Firefox7275 wrote:

daler wrote:

there is a thread here on EDS which mentioned that aloe causes glycation and thus skin aging with long term usage.. it had some links of the studies as well

Thanks for posting Daler. Can you please link to the study which demonstrated chronic use of aloe vera causes skin ageing? I can't find that either on EDS nor in the literature.

Threads you might be referring to. I can't find the source of Lisacollins00 post, it appears to be lifted verbatim from another forum which, in turn, is an unreferenced copy and paste.
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=26773
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=35352

The case for the prosecution is from 2001
http://forum.lef.org/default.aspx?f=38&m=17177
And the defence from 2003
http://www.nancykbrown.com/images/stories/Aloe%20Vera%20a%20review%20of%20the%20scientific%20literature.pdf

A selection of the positive studies linked to here, including stuff from the last decade
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=44821
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=43880&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=25

I ll try to look for that thread later today... I stopped using aloe after I read that...

free skin care · Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:43 am

daler wrote:

I ll try to look for that thread later today... I stopped using aloe after I read that...

Is it neither of the threads I linked to?

free skin care · Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:45 am

Firefox7275 wrote:

daler wrote:

I ll try to look for that thread later today... I stopped using aloe after I read that...

Is it neither of the threads I linked to?

sorry, yes it's the very first thread you posted... I need to have my coffee! lol

free skin care · Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:29 am

daler wrote:

sorry, yes it's the very first thread you posted... I need to have my coffee! lol

IMO you have misinterpreted/ read personal opinion as scientific fact. The LEF forum post suggests mannose may cause glycation based on just four studies from the 1990s, and implicates AV even tho only two of the studies mention it! IMO to leap from mannose may cause glycation to stating AV causes ageing is akin to saying that because Retin-A or L-ascorbic acid cause irritation/ low grade inflammation they are ageing. Do read the review Havana8 linked to which addresses the topic in more depth and is based on thirty three studies.

free skin care · Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:38 am

Firefox7275 wrote:

daler wrote:

sorry, yes it's the very first thread you posted... I need to have my coffee! lol

IMO you have misinterpreted/ read personal opinion as scientific fact. The LEF forum post suggests mannose may cause glycation based on just four studies from the 1990s, and implicates AV even tho only two of the studies mention it! IMO to leap from mannose may cause glycation to stating AV causes ageing is akin to saying that because Retin-A or L-ascorbic acid cause irritation/ low grade inflammation they are ageing. Do read the review Havana8 linked to which addresses the topic in more depth and is based on thirty three studies.

thank you Firefox7275 for the clarification, however, personally I avoid avoid aloe for long term use, just in case ....

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