Would love a little help re thick hair and tight skin!
EDS Skin Care Forums Forum Index » Skin Care and Makeup Forum

free skin care · Tue Jun 12, 2012 5:44 am

Hi everyone. First of all I would just like to thank everyone who helped me in my previous posts. It really was a huge help and has taught me a lot which I am now putting into practice. I have changed my diet after researching the weston price principles, introducing raw dairy and cod liver oil, and adding vitamin d and inositol to my regime. I have been looking after my mum who has parkinsons disease and it has sadly got to the stage where she is going into a care home. It's a trying time for all the family and having a new regime that makes me feel stronger is really precious to me right now.

I just wondered if I could get a little advice about (hopefully) softening and moisturising my thick hair. It is a little rigid and unmanageable because it is thick and it is also rather dry and kind of prickly feeling rather than the nice softness I had hoped for. I tend to shampoo every other day with a foaming gel shampoo and I rinse every day. I towel dry and comb every day. Is there any hope for me?

There was one other thing I hoped you might be able to help with. I have been using a foaming gel cleanser (salcura) which cleanses well but leaves a rather taut, dry feeling. I have been moisturising with borage (thanks firefox) which seems to work quite well (early days though on that one!) but I wonder if anyone has had success with a more moisturising (maybe cream or lotion) cleanser? I am dealing with seb derm so ingredients like borage and shea seem to work quite well for me as they are low in oleic acid (although Cod liver oil is recommended for SD and it is higher in oleic so go figure!). Thanks guys!

free skin care · Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:03 pm

Sorry to hear about your mother's illness. Crying or Very sad

If your hair is naturally coarse (thick strands) you cannot change that, so your hair may always have a strong texture unfortunately. What do you mean by towel dry - are you turbanning, blotting or rubbing? What sort of towel, regular cotton terry cloth or a microfibe or other gentle towel? What sort of comb, wide or narrow tooth? Are there any seams on the plastic that might snag? Are you using a conditioner?

For your hair it would be worth trying to cleanse your scalp only rather than lengths of hair each time. Depending how long your hair is you might apply conditioner to the lengths first in order to protect it from the shampoo you apply thereafter, and/ or dilute your shampoo 50/50 in a nozzle bottle then apply directly to the roots. Coconut oil is an incredible deep conditioner, the lauric acid it contains is a small enough molecule to penetrate the hair. It will not penetrate hair that is coated in silicones so must be applied to totally clean hair. Another possibility is a dilute white vinegar rinse, the slight acidity closes the cuticle leaving hair shinier and with more slip.

I am confused by the reference to the oleic acid in cod liver oil, presumably you are using CLO internally and not externally for the SD?

free skin care · Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:39 am

Hi firefox, thanks for coming back to me. I am taking the CLO internally but I thought that internal oleic acid was a no no as some SD diets have advised against EVOO internally because of high oleic acid. This is a confusion area for me as CLO is also oleic but is advised as being helpful for SD. I would like to make some homemade mayo which requires EVOO so I hope that internal oleic acid is okay in the case of EVOO as well as CLO!

With my hair I find that it is naturally thicker on the top than on the back and sides and that if I dont shampoo or rinse for a few days it does seem much softer and more manageable. The problem is that it is hard to style the naturally coarse area on top without wetting and with the SD there is a natural emphasis on regular washing so I have got into that cycle which dries the hair out. I tend to just rub it like fury to get it dry, I use a supima cotton towel and I use a wide comb made of vulcanized rubber (precisely to try and avoid snagging issues). I have a conditioner (the salcura one) but it has alcohol so may be drying the hair out. I used it once and it did make the hair a lot more manageable but one wouldn't use conditioner every day. Would the hair remain softened and more manageable on days without using conditioner?

THe shampoo i am using is a pain because it doesn't lather up very well and takes a lot of product to get what feels like an adequate amount for the whole head. I have the same cleanser and bodywash and i feel they are all quite drying but I haven't found a suitable alternative. I have heard that Fructis is quite a good conditioner and I use coconut oil regularly so could try that. I have also come across something called soap nut powder (from akamuti) which can be used as a shampoo and I am considering that. I wash my towels with soap nuts so I know that they are effective!

free skin care · Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:40 am

Rubbing your hair with a towel will damage the protective cuticle, making the hair rougher and drier. Wrap your hair in a towel, blot gently or drip dry. Which sort of alcohol is in the salcura conditioner? A drying alcohol or fatty alcohol? If you are in the UK, I like the NaturallyThinking SLS free extra mild shower gel even for the face, and the shampoo is almost identical in formulation so only need to buy one product. Maybe try using a bottle to direct shampoo to the roots? You can condition your hair daily, why do you think you cannot? Don't worry about lather, that is not required to make hair clean. Spend time massaging your scalp rather than using extra shampoo.

Oleic acid topically (products, in sebum, released by Malassezia) is irritant and can contribute to abnormal keratinisation. The link between dietary oleic and sebum oleic is complex - at least in acne this is mainly a problem where the diet is deficient in essential fatty acids. I don't see how you could eat enough cod liver oil for the oleic to be a problem anyway, you would overdose on the vitamin A and D first. I have heard of but never tried coconut oil mayonnaise; alternatively walnut or pumpkin seed oils contain plenty of essential fatty acids but are relatively low in oleic acid.

free skin care · Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:21 pm

Hi Firefox, this is the first thing I'm doing on a brand new computer! It's an HP Pavilion! I must admit that I was under the impression that the hair had to be dried as quickly and thoroughly as possible after rinsing hence the manic towel drying method! (I'm a guy, this stuff doesn't come naturally to me!).

The alcohol in the salcura conditioner is cetyl alcohol. I am interested in indian soapnut powder as a shampoo but haven't taken the plunge yet. Would it be sensible to shampoo, focusing on the scalp, 2-3 times per week, use a conditioner if required. Is it a good idea to have some days where you just leave the hair completely alone and avoid touching it with any water to avoid stripping the oils?

free skin care · Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:04 pm

Just to add to my previous reply I wonder if anyone can help me re finding a cleanser (face) which doesn't strip and dry the face too harshly? My cleanser and body wash both leave a taut feeling and seem somewhat drying, can anyone help me?

free skin care · Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:15 pm

What is the pH of the soapnuts powder once made up with water? Cetyl alcohol is a fatty alcohol, a conditioning agent not a drying ingredient. Conditioner should be used routinely not as required - it protects the hair from mechanical damage and from the next shampooing, resets the pH of the hair and closes the cuticle, which effectively increases strength. From the POV of hair health both shampoo and water damage the hair, so washing less frequently or giving up shampoo entirely is ideal. Shampoo strips the protective f-layer which with time makes the hair more porous and at risk of water damage, this accumulates over month or years. The more you do to preserve your f-layer and cuticle the less of a problem daily wetting is. So if your hair is short shampooing mainly the scalp, using conditioner or coconut oil and not rubbing your hair should be be fine.

free skin care · Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:30 am

Thanks firefox that's very interesting and i never knew that. Do you know of any moisturising type cleansers which might be appropriate for me, i'm thinking of switching from gel to a cream or lotion but i sppreciate your suggestion of the shampoo base. I fear being a gel it may have the same response on my skin. I think that a cream or lotion might be more moisturising but i havent found one and believe me I've looked!

free skin care · Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:38 am

Hi craven20. Smile

So sorry to hear about your Mom. ((hugs))

Regarding your hair, it just sounds dry like you need a conditioner! You should probably use a conditioner in addition to shampoo. Smile

And be gentle with it. I like to pat/blot/squeeze mine dry with a towel rather than rub. (Also, I wash my hair every other day.) Have you tried silicone based leave-in products or anything like that? Some people like Argan oil or Coconut oil for their hair, but I like silicone based products personally. I like to apply a silicone based serum to my hair, it's fabulous! And have you considered taking Evening Primrose Oil as a supplement? It would probably fix your dry hair issue (makes it smooth, shiny and soft), as well as the tight skin issue and would also probably help your seb. derm IMO. Smile

Regarding a creamy cleanser, hmm

the only one I can think of that I know is really popular is "Earth Science A-D-E Creamy Cleanser"

http://www.iherb.com/Earth-Science-A-D-E-Creamy-Cleanser-Dry-Sensitive-Skin-8-fl-oz-240-ml/15192

I don't know if it suits your needs though because it contains oils, but many love that one! But you might not even need to switch your cleanser if you were taking evening primrose oil.

You might also like this thread if you haven't read it already. "Dry frizzy hair rescue":

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=45732

free skin care · Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:46 am

craven20 wrote:

Thanks firefox that's very interesting and i never knew that. Do you know of any moisturising type cleansers which might be appropriate for me, i'm thinking of switching from gel to a cream or lotion but i sppreciate your suggestion of the shampoo base. I fear being a gel it may have the same response on my skin. I think that a cream or lotion might be more moisturising but i havent found one and believe me I've looked!

If you are in the UK this is what I am using
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220909957381#ht_500wt_922
"Water, sweet almond oil, glyceryl stearate, glycerin, cetearyl alcohol, PEG-100 stearate, cocoamidopropyl PG-dimonium chloride phosphate, hydroxy ethyl cellulose, parfum, disodium EDTA."
Does contain almond oil which is a source of in oleic acid tho. It is not greasy in the slightest and because there are plenty of emulsifiers it rinses clean (I use water and a muslin cloth).

Haven't tried it myself and quite a bit pricier is the Body Shop aloe calming cleanser
http://www.thebodyshop.co.uk/shop-by-range/aloe/aloe-calming-facial-cleanser.aspx
"Water, Aloe barbadensis, Pentylene Glycol (Solvent), Caprylic/Capric Triglyceride (Emollient), palm oil, Butylene Glycol (Humectant), Cyclomethicone (Emollient), Glycerin (Humectant), Glyceryl Stearate Citrate (Skin-Conditioning Agent), Cetearyl Alcohol (Emulsifier), Sorbitol (Humectant), Glyceryl Stearate (Emulsifier), Babassu Oil, Acrylates/C10-30 Alkyl Acrylate Crosspolymer (Stabiliser/Viscosity Modifier), Xanthan Gum (Viscosity Modifier), Disodium Phosphate (pH Buffer."

Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:12 pm

Have you tried WEN or no poo on your hair? Google "no poo hair" for an explanation and methods.

free skin care · Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:17 pm

terraaus wrote:

Have you tried WEN or no poo on your hair? Google "no poo hair" for an explanation and methods.

Here are three threads on conditioner only washing at EDS if you want an easy place to start reading other's experiences: Smile

condition only hair washing

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=35478

conditioner only hair washing--what's the deal?

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=22603

conditioner only when washing my hair

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=8590

free skin care · Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:21 pm

Thanks for everyones' responses, I'm a little overwhelmed! I used a conditioner (UK brand called Salcura) a couple of times and my hair was softer and more manageable but still felt somewhat dry. I massaged in, left for 5 mins, put a little shampoo on then rinsed and put a towel round my head, followed by combing with a wide tooth rubber comb. I couldn't get the towel to stay on my head and my hair still felt wet, I wonder whether I should get a turbie twist? My conditioner has Cetyl alcohol, Behentrimonium organic chloride, Sea Buckthorn and Borage. Does this sound good?

I ordered Soap Nut powder which is meant to have natural conditioning properties but I don't know anything about it having never used it before. I'm rather confused at the moment which way to go, I would appreciate a little guidance. My hair is naturally curly and thick but at its' worst it takes on this terrible bushy/fluffy look which kids at school used to tease me about! Pictures of me as a young child still show thick, curly hair but it looks so much nicer (no bushiness!). I assume the years of SLS shampoo spoiled that.

free skin care · Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:34 am

You mentioned using conditioner, and THEN shampoo? Its normally the other way around.

I have curly hair and gently shampoo my roots, or use conditioner (co-wash) only. I use a richer conditioner on the length, leave for a few minutes and rinse.

I wrap my hair in a towel while drying off my body, but take it down while its still very wet and dripping. (My hair holds a LOT of water). I comb through with a wide tooth comb and apply gel, and comb through to tidy it again and let the curls come together - all while its still dripping. Then I either let it air or blow dry or gently wrap it in a microfibre towel (I've got a little pink hood thing), without disturbing the curls, and blot dry a bit. Then I take it down and either air or blow dry to help it along since it takes sooo long to dry.

This is the only way I've found to guard against my curls seperating and getting frizzy. I really need product in order to keep it tame and have been experimenting with making my own gel.

Re your face, the simplest advice I can give, no matter what you use, is to clean your face very gently.. maybe allow a little of your natural oil to stay and protect your skin.

free skin care · Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:09 pm

thanks for your reply lori, and more power to people with curly hair! i guess it's trial and error but it's great youve found a method that works for you. as a guy it is not as natural for me to assimilate subjects like conditioning and turbanning (i couldnt get the towel to stay on my head)! i was also blinded by whether to use conditioner and poo or no poo and just conditioner, or even something completely else like soap nuts. my scalp is really flaky at the moment which tends to happen as my hair gets longer and the SD flakes become harder to remove. ive started taking oregano oil as of yesterday and im considering adding that to shampoo/conditioner as a flake treatment.

free skin care · Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:21 pm

oh, I didn't realize you were male! I'll make it a point to talk down to you then! Just kidding... Laughing

I hang my head upside down, stretch out the towel, lay the centre/long edge against the back of my head/neck, and then bring one side up across my ear.. temple... forhead, and then tightly bring the other one up across my other ear.. temple.. forehead, so that it crosses in the centre/top of your forehead and hugs your head fairly tightly. Then, you twist the rest of the towel as you stand up and kind of tuck it so that it hopefully stays put. I hope that made sense.
I think microfibre towels are gentler on hair, and soak up water more quickly.

And what worked like magic for me when I had dandruff was spritzing or just rubbing just a bit of apple cider vinegar (ACV) onto my scalp. The smell goes away fairly quickly. People also use it as a toner, and my skin really likes it.

One more word of advice, is to be gentle with your scalp - there's really no need to rub shampoo into it. That'll just irritate. Just gently move whatever you're using to cleanse in and around the roots to sweep away oils & dead skin. same with your skin. You'll notice a big difference.

All the best finding your way!

free skin care · Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:14 am

Hi craven20, you should get a buzz cut, it really looks good on guys with thick hair, I find buzz cut v attractive!

As far as tight skin, try using pure oils like argan oil, rosehip seed oil, tanamu oil, pomegranate seed oil....

Automatic Message

If this is your first visit to the EDS Forums please take the time to register. Registration is required for you to post on the forums. Registration will also give you the ability to track messages of interest, send private messages to other users, participate in Gift Certificates draws and enjoy automatic discounts for shopping at our online store. Registration is free and takes just a few seconds to complete.

Click Here to join our community.

If you are already a registered member on the forums, please login to gain full access to the site.