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Best non filler ways to treat tear trough?
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benzerbru
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Mon Sep 02, 2013 5:23 am      Reply with quote
Hi guys, lately I've been feeling really down about my tear troughs and wonder have you got any good alternatives to getting fillers to treat them?

I'm looking for good methods of thickening the skin or just reducing the dark lines caused by the tear trough? Are there any good diet changes that can reduce the dark lines caused by the tear trough?

Thanks in advance for any feedback you can give me.
benzerbru
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Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:35 am      Reply with quote
anybody?
Nonie aka AD
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Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:58 am      Reply with quote
Doing a search is usually a quicker way to get responses as most topics have been discussed before:

On tear troughs:

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=41350

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=49319

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=39749

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=35044

On dark circles:

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=29749

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=43073

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=6037
benzerbru
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Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:13 pm      Reply with quote
Thanks
tkee3
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Tue Sep 03, 2013 7:25 pm      Reply with quote
I have the same problem with tear troughs and am currently looking for a non filler/surgery solution myself. I read on this forum that Emu Oil helps thicken the skin. People are saying Avocado Oil will help. I started using that and will update if any changes occur. Also retin-A might help.
Tyger
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Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:18 pm      Reply with quote
I have the same problem, one slightly bigger due to a slight difference in the shape of my cheekbones. My tear troughs are through loss of collagen from ageing. I have tried massaging in the past but stopped because I couldn't see much difference and worried about creating more wrinkles. I recently decided to massage only at the very outer sides just underneath end of eyes, as a test to see if the skin would thicken even a little, not with much hope based on my previous experience - but this week I suddenly noticed that the smaller tear trough seems to be filling in a bit at the end - thought I was imagining it Shock but the skin feels very slightly thicker than the rest of the undereye area - and it was noticeable compared to the larger tear trough, which doesn't seem to have changed much yet. I only massage every few days (when I remember I haven't done it for a while Smile) so maybe I am giving the skin time to adjust between times - who knows Rolling Eyes . I am going with it and if it continues thickening, I will eventually start working my way along underneath the eyes, probably over months! I have also been doing lower lid exercises occasionally, where you move the muscle up without squinting. Maybe that is helping too...

I have various eye creams etc bought over the last couple of years, none of which do much (even AALS is not having much effect there) and I am done with spending money on more.
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Sun Sep 08, 2013 8:20 am      Reply with quote
As you probably read in the other threads Nonie posted, it really depends on what is causing the 'trough'. Usually the darkness there is because the fat pad from the upper cheek has dropped a bit due to aging (this can even happen quite young) which will create a kind of indentation along the trough. The darkness is often an actual shadow from the indentation where the loss of fat in the tear trough shows. You are right that skin care, and any topical interventions are probably not going to 'cure' this issue. Fillers or fat grafting (or later a blephoraplasty) are really the only things that will make the surface of the skin even again so the dark shadow is not being created by the indentation. You can tell if this is your problem by seeing if you have two 'bulges'. If you look at your face from the side, a face without this fat loss has one 'bulge' from the eye right over the cheek. When the fat pads have begun to separate and drop, or fat loss has occurred, you will see two bulges - one just under the eye, an indent, and then the cheek bulge.

If this is not your issue, then you are dealing with skin issues, such as thin skin where the blue blood circulation shows though, possible puffiness (I love ultrasound for helping with eyebags - best thing I have ever found). The only thing I have really found to be effective at thickening the skin is using needling, I find the autoneedling devices much easier to use around the eye and much more effective than the rollers. Still not the most fun, and there is down time. But it is the one thing that is having good results.
AngelaE8654
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Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:59 am      Reply with quote
I've been doing the "facial detox" for just a few days now and unbelievably, my tear troughs are already beginning to look so much better. I have one line under each eye that I absolutely hate and today I can almost not see them. I have been making sure to do the facial detox over the tear troughs every time I do it. Here is the "preview" video that shows you the amazing 'before and after' photos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8_OHjo7OeE&feature=c4-overview&list=UU_8tJbL_Srt4xbQkcPNaTXA

This lady achieved these results in only three months. You can see that her tear troughs are greatly improved:

Image

Here is the video showing the actual "facial detox technique":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkUCiYMcofQ&list=UU_8tJbL_Srt4xbQkcPNaTXA

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tkee3
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Sun Sep 08, 2013 7:14 pm      Reply with quote
Hello Angela, thanks for posting that exercise. I watched the video but I'm still a little confused on how to do the exercise. Are you just using your backhand and rubbing back and forth on the tear trough area?
AngelaE8654
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Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:24 am      Reply with quote
tkee3 wrote:
Hello Angela, thanks for posting that exercise. I watched the video but I'm still a little confused on how to do the exercise. Are you just using your backhand and rubbing back and forth on the tear trough area?


The technique is using the backs of your hand on most parts of your face. For the tear troughs, personally, I use my two index fingers and really give the tear trough some friction, making it warm. Make sure you don't go overboard however, or you can break the skin which would be bad.

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Barefootgirl
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Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:44 am      Reply with quote
really, really good concealer, if the root cause of them is aging and nothing else.

Good luck with that.

BFG
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Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:39 am      Reply with quote
have more time now to talk about camouflage - depending on your complexion (Fitzpatrick) if your skin is fair to medium, you could try first applying a highlighter stick like Benefit's eye brightener, then a good opaque concealer like Benefit's Erase Paste, then dust over both with an appropriate powder corrector like those from Pure Luxe...you may have to play with different sample shades to get the ones that work best for your ski tone.
Eve Pearl makes some good correctors as well.

BFG - not affiliated with any of these brands.
Idealist
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Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:10 am      Reply with quote
I agree with BFG, I like the benefit eye brightener too (is that the pinkish thick pencil?). A decent concealer is a must (I like Laura mercier duo or cle de peu - both will cover anything! And last and last), followed by something with highlighting capabilities to bring the shadow out (such as the benefit above, or my old standby Le touché éclat, but this is not opaque so on worse days definitely requires the concealer also), and if needed for special or longer days set with a good brightening powder (I like Laura mercier brightening powder - opens the eye and brings some luminosity without any sparkliness).

The trick to concealing the trough- and you really can make a fairly deep one virtually invisible- is to never use your concealer over the entire eye area. You can use foundation over the whole eye if you are using it, but only use your highlighter/concealer combo or one or the other in the actual shadowed area of the trough. The idea is to bring that area out with the use of a slightly lighter tone to make it look like it is at the same level as the rest of your skin. A slightly lighter yellow tone can help if you have a bluish tone from visible blood circulation, and on lighter skin tones a pinkish highlighter will brighten and open up the area (not going to be so great on olive complexions I wouldn't think, but I am fair so I am not sure. I actually use both and they both work for me).

Hopefully this hasn't been shading/highlighting 101. I have just had to learn how to disguise mine very well since my early twenties.

On the facial detox, I tried the massage and enjoyed how my face felt, and also think the lady looks healthier. I always find it very disappointing though when they do the before photos in such obviously unflattering lighting. I have the misfortune (because I don't enjoy it, its just part of my job) of getting a lot of photos taken of myself, and although I am not an unattractive person, I can look absolutely sick and hideous in that same kind of lighting, yet two seconds later radiant and beautiful by turning my head out of the harsh lighting. In the after photo she has lighting from the front. What this does is shine into any crags and hollows so that it isn't showing up all those lines and folds. Lighting before is from above (see the shadow under the chin). This will give you terrible eyebags and make anyone look their worst - think bad bathroom lighting with a light shining directly over your head argh!, vs nice lighting with the lights directly to the sides (or slightly above to the sides) of your face which casts an even glow across the face. Other things I think of are, is she at a retreat on a new cleaner diet, has she put on weight? This is not to say I don't think massage is absolutely wonderful for the face and don't do it myself, because I do and I do. But as always, our expectations must be realistic. Everything is a multi-pronged approach. This lady may have come from a stressful job in the west and decided to take a three month retreat to heal her body and face. I have seen people coming back from retreats looking a lot healthier and better without ever massaging their faces, perhaps from meditation, or yoga or just clean eating. That said, if you take all of these things into consideration, you can definitely improve skin health, and I would love to hear of more people's success, or see some others new independent pictures from the facial detox method. I do think bringing in plenty of blood circulation to the face and flushing the lymph will produce benefits.

ETA: this brings to mind just yesterday we were viewing photos that were taken by a wonderful photographer of me the day I had arrived back from India a few months back. I was tired and hadn't slept but the photographer wanted to do a shoot, so I reluctantly did it. Anyway he was extremely talented photographer and most of the pictures are amazing, and I can't believe how good I look, especially considering how jetlagged I was and terrible I felt. However, there is one picture that makes me shiver in horror. The lighting caught me from the wrong angle, and it looks like I have loose skin hanging from the side of my face in ribbons, and deep eye hollows like a skull. You would quite easily believe I was much older than my age. Yet the next picture with the lighting stabilized, I am looking plump and fresh and young again. It would make the perfect before and after, if I ever could bear to show my face publicly (I wouldn't!) yet was just seconds apart, and not even deliberate. I don't expect other people to know about lighting, even natural lighting (sunlight, room lights) they are the worst! Actually that is what I believe we see in the facial detox pics. A room bulb above (possibly even fluoro), followed by a photographers soft light shone straight on. She is even in front of a photographers green screen in the second. These are usually used so that you can edit any background you like in post or make other changes easily. This is why the second picture is without the harsh shadows and looks softer. Sorry for the long windedness.
Barefootgirl
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Tue Sep 10, 2013 5:26 am      Reply with quote
yes, the brightening pencil is excellent for dark circles, counteracts them wonderfully....again, it does also depend somewhat on the complexion. I am cool toned and fair and Fitzpatrick I/II - so it was perfect, but after fillers, I didn't need to use it.

BFG
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Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:07 am      Reply with quote
Yes, you can see amazing before and afters now with fillers on eye troughs. It's pretty miraculous really!
AngelaE8654
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Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:48 am      Reply with quote
If you look at the "preview" video that I linked, they also show the teacher's results with the facial detox and they show him in a video not a photo so there is no "camera/light trickery" going on. I know that the lighting and all that can and does make a difference; I've seen the very same thing with photos of myself. However, if you look at portions of this woman's face you will see differences that stand out, like the size and shape of her lips from the before to the after. The entire shape of her face is slightly different, too...it's fuller and more rounded in the "after" photo. I don't think the differences between the two photos is all "camera trickery"; I think there are huge, positive differences in her 'before' and her 'after' photos. My own tear troughs appear to be filling in rather quickly by using the "facial detox" technique.

P.S. Thank you for the information about the concealer and such; I just hate foundation and concealer and all that so much I just can't bring myself to use it. I do use makeup but unless I'm covering a zit or something, concealer just doesn't cut it for me. That's why I like and need to have my actual skin look good. Laughing Laughing

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Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:23 pm      Reply with quote
Yes I thought I made it clear I saw improvement also. I just want to make it clear that although I like the detox massage, and love facial massage in general and think its great for the skin, that you always have to be realistic in your expectations. It sounds like they have other students in the videos, so it would be nice to see more photos demonstrating this kind of result. I truly believe, and this is what I was trying to say, that improvement like this isn't just from one thing only, even though you can expect some nice skin changes. To me it looks like she has gained weight which looks better, and she also looks healthier, which could be due to a healthier diet. If she moved to Asia from the west and is eating less processed food and more fresh produce this would make sense. Also using less damaging skin products and switching to a gentle oil only type of routine can result in a healthy glow too. Now I have no clue which of these things if any contributed, I am just saying that I believe the massage is one part of the picture, even if it was the main catalyst and helped her the most. It is great to be optimistic, but over time after trying many things you tend to get a bit more realistic about what you can expect from certain things. I think massage is great. Will everyone's face plump up this much? I doubt it. But that is not to say it is not worth doing, because it is. Usually when people have something to sell, they show things in the best light that's all, and you can usually take it with a grain of salt. I know the YouTube vids are free, but it seems like he is running a retreat of some kind...

Hope my 'realism' is not being a downer for the hopefuls!
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Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:35 pm      Reply with quote
I thought the before/after photos were kind of funny. I don't believe they are quite trustworthy, unless the program also lightens eye/iris color 2-3 shades, which seems unlikely (although detox people for whatever reason firmly believe that toxins leaving body make eyes lighter and also turn them blue in some cases).
Also, videos can be easily manipulated. Same tricks as in photography apply.
Just a tiny thing to look closer at and take into consideration.

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AngelaE8654
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Tue Sep 10, 2013 2:30 pm      Reply with quote
Look at her eyelids. The "before" photo doesn't really show her eyelids; they appear to be "hooded" eyelids. The "after" photo shows clear double eyelids. Don't think that can be done by camera trickery, either. This same lady is featured in at least one of the videos on this "facialdetox" person's YouTube channel and she looks great. Obviously we can't all see this particular lady in person, we HAVE to see her via photo or video. Programs that are cons and don't work at all are found out pretty quickly to be cons. I don't think this is a con at all; I think this "facial detox" is very similar to the "friction" that Sanford Bennett talks about in his book and you can see what friction did for him below. These photos were taken in the very early part of the 1900's; long before 'photoshop' or any of that was invented.

Image

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Idealist
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Tue Sep 10, 2013 4:46 pm      Reply with quote
Actually Angela, lighting is most definitely able to account for the changes you see in her eyelids. Because she is lit from above the visible eyelid portion is in complete shadow making it seem non existent. These are exactly the kinds of things lighting does. If you can lighten your screen you can see that she has the same amount of eyelid show, albeit masked in darkness as it would be if lit the same on the second photo. Eyes can literally become black holes depending on how extreme you take the ugly shadow casting effects. I have never seen a facial exercising before and after that did NOT utilize these techniques, deliberately or not. Sometimes people just see a better photo of themselves after doing facial exercise that they feel shows them truthfully without realizing how much more flattering it is lighting wise than the original one that would have made any poor soul feel dreadful about themselves. I saw photos posted on another thread of another guy today (can't remember his name) where you couldn't have possibly chosen angles that showed more shadowed crevices if you tried, followed by the afters...with him of course holding his face at much more flattering angles in better lighting. It's outrageous really, and I am baffled that people don't notice! Sure, there may be improvements, but they are impossible to trust with that sort of deliberate trickery going on.

As for Sanford Bennett, there most certainly was photoshop in those days! They would actually paint directly onto the photo! Those were the days of the most cunning and outrageous charlatans ever. I would never trust those photos! They look absolutely touched up to me, as was completely common in his day. Also he has gained considerable weight. But I don't want to get into an argument. People see different things. I love massage. Some things are just not realistic for people and will lead to frustration if taken seriously.
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Tue Sep 10, 2013 6:39 pm      Reply with quote
Sanford Bennett's book, which you can read here:

http://archive.org/stream/oldageitscausea01benngoog#page/n8/mode/2up


is chock-full of photos of Sanford in his 70s. Most of the photos show exercise techniques and many of them show his entire body but he looks the same in all of them. I think it's a huge stretch to imagine that all his photos are touched up and fraudulent. Not to mention, when his book came out, people actually KNEW him personally. He didn't gain a lot of weight at all; in his "after" doctor examination, he only had a 28-inch waist, which is skinny for a man. He simply filled out his neck and face with his massage and exercise and friction. Just like we would like to know how to do today. Very Happy

He had his doctor examine him carefully throughout the process of "getting younger" and saw his doctor regularly. Here are the documents from the Medical Doctor about the changes in Sanford Bennett's skin and health. You can say that those are fraudulent too but those are real documents from a real medical doctor and would count as evidence even in a court of law.
Image

Image

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Debb3485
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Tue Sep 10, 2013 6:40 pm      Reply with quote
I thought I posted a reply but don't see it here. I've seen improvement in mine when I use Isomers Redensify Eye cream. It runs around $42 and the jar lasts quite a while. As others on this board have also mentioned, facial exercises & microcurrent type stuff may also help.
Debb3485
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Tue Sep 10, 2013 6:53 pm      Reply with quote
Okay, are you talking about the hollow or indention around the bone of the lower eye or are you talking about under eye darkness? For darkness, Isomers R Pur for Eyes works really well. Here's a description of R Pur-Eyes:

What is it?

Targeted serum for the entire eye contour. For temperamental and mature skin.

Intensive - yet super lightweight. Boasting germinating soy, soy isoflavones, genistein and technological extracts to help transform the visible eye contour. For a tighter, brighter and younger-looking eye contour.

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Targets mature, temperamental, skin ages 45 and up
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Here's the description of Redensify Eye:

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Addressing eye care in a new way…our Re-Densify eye smoothing formula helps boost and invigorate the look of the eye area, by addressing fine lines, tired and hollow looking eye contour. If the look of aging has your eyes looking sunken in and your face looking tired, this new approach to skin care works to help re-store and re-claim a younger look.
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Tue Sep 10, 2013 11:17 pm      Reply with quote
Hello Debb3485, are the tear troughs your talking about the lines that run from the corner of the eye to the cheek. Those are the one I have. If not, do you still think the Isomers Eye cream would work?
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Wed Sep 11, 2013 2:11 am      Reply with quote
Angela E8654, I think the lighting in Sanford Bennett's earlier photo certainly contributes to him looking older - and the moustache hides a lot! I find it odd in the 'after' doctor's report that SB's weight is not mentioned (as it is in the 'before' report) -it is one of the first things a doctor records with changes in the body. I know muscle weighs more than fat but it is still an odd omission. I am not saying SB didn't have improvement from his exercise regime but photos can be used to exaggerate - I guess the proof is in the pudding of trying his exercise regime.

I agree with Idealist totally about lighting and good and bad photos can be taken in one sitting just in changing to/from flash and angle etc. I sometimes take a warts-and-all photo of myself with bad lighting, just to see the worst I can look (and to see which bits that need more attention Very Happy ), especially as out in the real world of shopping, restaurants etc. you cannot control the lighting (Marks & Spencer's is one of the worst for unflattering lighting - and let's not talk about lighting in the changing rooms in most department stores Shock).

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